User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: Did FDR provoke the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

  1. #1
    Original Ranter
    Points: 863,459, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    497476
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    242,798
    Points
    863,459
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,665
    Thanked 148,486x in 94,934 Posts
    Mentioned
    2554 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Did FDR provoke the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

    Did FDR provoke the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

    Yes. Of course he did. The American people wanted nothing to do with a war in Europe or the Pacific. FDR applied economic pressure against Japan (oil embargo) knowing it would leave the Empire of Japan with no choice but to wage war against the US. It worked. After Pearl Harbor the American people did a 180 from isolationism to total war.

    Ask a typical American how the United States got into World War II, and he will almost certainly tell you that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Americans fought back. Ask him why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and he will probably need some time to gather his thoughts. He might say that the Japanese were aggressive militarists who wanted to take over the world, or at least the Asia-Pacific part of it. Ask him what the United States did to provoke the Japanese, and he will probably say that the Americans did nothing: we were just minding our own business when the crazy Japanese, completely without justification, mounted a sneak attack on us, catching us totally by surprise in Hawaii on December 7, 1941.

    You can’t blame him much. For more than 60 years such beliefs have constituted the generally accepted view among Americans, the one taught in schools and depicted in movies—what “every schoolboy knows.” Unfortunately, this orthodox view is a tissue of misconceptions. Don’t bother to ask the typical American what U.S. economic warfare had to do with provoking the Japanese to mount their attack, because he won’t know. Indeed, he will have no idea what you are talking about.
    When Franklin D. Roosevelt became president in 1933, the U.S. government fell under the control of a man who disliked the Japanese and harbored a romantic affection for the Chinese because, some writers have speculated, Roosevelt’s ancestors had made money in the China trade.[1] Roosevelt also disliked the Germans (and of course Adolf Hitler), and he tended to favor the British in his personal relations and in world affairs. He did not pay much attention to foreign policy, however, until his New Deal began to peter out in 1937. Afterward, he relied heavily on foreign policy to fulfill his political ambitions, including his desire for reelection to an unprecedented third term.

    When Germany began to rearm and to seek Lebensraum aggressively in the late 1930s, the Roosevelt administration cooperated closely with the British and the French in measures to oppose German expansion. After World War II commenced in 1939, this U.S. assistance grew ever greater and included such measures as the so-called destroyer deal and the deceptively named Lend-Lease program. In anticipation of U.S. entry into the war, British and U.S. military staffs secretly formulated plans for joint operations. U.S. forces sought to create a war-justifying incident by cooperating with the British navy in attacks on German U-boats in the north Atlantic, but Hitler refused to take the bait, thus denying Roosevelt the pretext he craved for making the United States a full-fledged, declared belligerent—an end that the great majority of Americans opposed.
    Read the entire article at the link.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  2. #2
    Points: 15,753, Level: 30
    Level completed: 31%, Points required for next Level: 697
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    exploited's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    158424
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    4,642
    Points
    15,753
    Level
    30
    Thanks Given
    600
    Thanked 1,218x in 896 Posts
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It is entirely possible. I find it impossible for me to gauge the thoughts of a man who was dead long before I was born, and I don't trust the historical record.

    That said, if he sparked the war... well, I'm kind of glad. Fascism, obscene nationalism and racial genocide had to be defeated. WWII forced America to confront alot of things about itself, but most of all other people. After the war, a black American veteran couldn't get served in a restaurant, but a white German veteran could. The US proceeded to change itself over the next twenty years. It went from a nation that couldn't stand the idea of whites mixing with blacks, Irish with English, French with English, blacks and browns with Anyone... to a nation that accepted all ethnicities, and tried to teach them a better way.

    The rest of the Western world promptly picked up on it, and has since tried to ride it out.

    Now, twenty years after the final real challenge to American supremacy fell, the West is having a bit of an identity crisis. No surprise there, IMO. It was only a matter of time before the Western world had to reflect on how awesome it is.
    Last edited by exploited; 08-26-2016 at 09:55 PM.

  3. #3
    Points: 175,375, Level: 99
    Level completed: 44%, Points required for next Level: 2,275
    Overall activity: 27.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience Points
    Dr. Who's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    870786
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gallifrey
    Posts
    69,343
    Points
    175,375
    Level
    99
    Thanks Given
    12,938
    Thanked 13,049x in 8,897 Posts
    Mentioned
    207 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Did FDR provoke the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

    Yes. Of course he did. The American people wanted nothing to do with a war in Europe or the Pacific. FDR applied economic pressure against Japan (oil embargo) knowing it would leave the Empire of Japan with no choice but to wage war against the US. It worked. After Pearl Harbor the American people did a 180 from isolationism to total war.





    Read the entire article at the link.
    Yes. America's entry into WWII was planned. FDR wanted to be a war-time president and Churchill wanted to be a war-time Prime Minister. They had much in common. What might have been a European local conflict turned into WWII by virtue of the efforts of both of these men. Germany had no intention of attacking Great Britain, or any other countries that were not part of the historic greater Germany, but there was no sincere attempt at diplomacy. FDR was corresponding with Churchill from 1940 on, planning the geopolitical activities that would draw America into the war and forcing both the Germans and Japanese into a corner.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dr. Who For This Useful Post:

    Ethereal (08-27-2016),Peter1469 (08-27-2016)

  5. #4
    Points: 23,939, Level: 37
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 411
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Newpublius's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    39140
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Posts
    7,313
    Points
    23,939
    Level
    37
    Thanks Given
    1,556
    Thanked 4,123x in 2,793 Posts
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    FDR applied economic pressure against Japan (oil embargo) knowing it would leave the Empire of Japan with no choice but to wage war against the US.
    Without the US, which was a major oil player at the time, the Japanese went for Indonesia (then the Dutch East Indies) and of course the US held Phillippines straddled that invasion corridor....FDR also just flat out violated neutrality

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Newpublius For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (08-27-2016)

  7. #5
    Points: 39,654, Level: 48
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 496
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    VeteranTagger First Class25000 Experience PointsSocial
    waltky's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    5662
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    8,859
    Points
    39,654
    Level
    48
    Thanks Given
    2,515
    Thanked 2,140x in 1,616 Posts
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You need to learn about the rape of Nanking...

    ... which provoked the oil embargo by FDR...

    ... to put the history of WWII in perspective.

  8. #6
    Points: 66,681, Level: 63
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 2,069
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    AZ Jim's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    136309
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    11,457
    Points
    66,681
    Level
    63
    Thanks Given
    4,760
    Thanked 4,319x in 2,953 Posts
    Mentioned
    344 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All these 2016 retrospective geniuses second guessing a President who was so beloved he was elected 4 times to lead our nation. I remember the day he died, Mom, Dad and my Grandparents all were teary when I got home from school (which was let out early).
    Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I digress....

  9. #7
    Points: 8,646, Level: 22
    Level completed: 25%, Points required for next Level: 604
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Created Album picturesVeteran5000 Experience Points
    ThirdTerm's Avatar Member
    Karma
    1259
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The motherland
    Posts
    101
    Points
    8,646
    Level
    22
    Thanks Given
    3
    Thanked 53x in 42 Posts
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In anticipation of U.S. entry into the war, British and U.S. military staffs secretly formulated plans for joint operations. U.S. forces sought to create a war-justifying incident by cooperating with the British navy in attacks on German U-boats in the north Atlantic.
    It's still in the realm of conspiracy theories but the US did its best to provoke the Japanese into firing the first shot in the Pacific as well. Historians cannot confirm FDR's true intentions because relevant historical documents are still classified for forty more years. The Japanese leadership decided to take out the Pacific Fleet based on Yamamoto's wacky plan. But in hindsight, Japan could have grabbed the Dutch East Indies without triggering an American intervention and dragging the US into war prevented the Axis powers from prevailing. I don't think the US government will declassify any documents that put America in a negative light in the near future. Some diplomatic papers dated back to 1941 were recently made public, which tell us about America's efforts to reach a peaceful settlement with Japan.



    Efforts to reach a peaceful settlement between the United States and Japan preceding attack by Japan on American territory, December 7:1


    1. See also Foreign Relations, Japan, 1931–1941, vol ii, pp. 131149, 325795; Investigation of the Pearl Harbor Attack: Report of the Joint Committee on the Investigation of the Pearl Harbor Attack, 79th Cong., 2d sess., pursuant to S. Con. Res. 27, a concurrent resolution to investigate the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and events and circumstances relating thereto, and additional views of Mr. Keefe, together with Minority views of Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Brewster (1946); Pearl Harbor Attack: Hearings before the Joint Committee on the Investigation of the Pearl Harbor Attack, 79th Cong., 1st sess., in 183 exhibits printed in 39 parts (1946), and especially part 12 containing intercepted Japanese code messages (“magic”); and Department of the Army, Strategic Planning for Coalition Warfare, 1941–1942 (Washington, 1953), pp. 1–126.









    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 08-27-2016 at 02:27 AM.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to ThirdTerm For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (08-27-2016)

  11. #8
    Points: 78,360, Level: 68
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 1,690
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mac-7's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    88605
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    31,640
    Points
    78,360
    Level
    68
    Thanks Given
    1,121
    Thanked 5,887x in 4,879 Posts
    Mentioned
    344 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by waltky View Post
    You need to learn about the rape of Nanking...

    ... which provoked the oil embargo by FDR...

    ... to put the history of WWII in perspective.
    They know nothing about history and do not want to know
    Last edited by Mac-7; 08-27-2016 at 01:02 AM.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Mac-7 For This Useful Post:

    DGUtley (08-27-2016)

  13. #9
    Points: 78,360, Level: 68
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 1,690
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mac-7's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    88605
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    31,640
    Points
    78,360
    Level
    68
    Thanks Given
    1,121
    Thanked 5,887x in 4,879 Posts
    Mentioned
    344 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Yes. America's entry into WWII was planned. FDR wanted to be a war-time president and Churchill wanted to be a war-time Prime Minister. They had much in common. What might have been a European local conflict turned into WWII by virtue of the efforts of both of these men.

    Germany had no intention of attacking Great Britain, or any other countries that were not part of the historic greater Germany,

    but there was no sincere attempt at diplomacy. FDR was corresponding with Churchill from 1940 on, planning the geopolitical activities that would draw America into the war and forcing both the Germans and Japanese into a corner.


    Czechoslavakia was never part of historic germany and neither was Poland

  14. #10
    Points: 223,884, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 17.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteranYour first Group
    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    468848
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    67,902
    Points
    223,884
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    14,238
    Thanked 41,580x in 26,042 Posts
    Mentioned
    1175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac-7 View Post
    Czechoslavakia was never part of historic germany and neither was Poland
    The city of Danzig was a German city under Polish control.

    The belligerent Poles refused to negotiate new terms with Germany because the idiot Brits gave the Poles a war guarantee.

    So millions of people died just so Poland could keep a city that never belonged to them in the first place.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts