A Thread About Race For Rational People

[Mister D]

cryto-whut...

It's the category we put unicorns, manticores, mermaids and, apparently, black people in.

[Mister D]

Sorry to hear about your family member @Mister D.

My father. I can't believe how hard this is. Feeling better after the initial shock has past but thank you.

[Dr. Who]

he refuted the interpretation of the data rather effectively

if you weren't a partisan asshat, you'd be able to see that

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[Dr. Who]

My father. I can't believe how hard this is. Feeling better after the initial shock has past but thank you.

I'm so sorry Mister D. My deepest condolences on your loss. It sounds like it was unexpected, which is always all the more difficult because you are not prepared.

[Tricia]

My father. I can't believe how hard this is. Feeling better after the initial shock has past but thank you.

Oh, D, I'm so sorry. Losing a parent is so hard. My mom died of cancer a few years ago and it still hurts. Not as bad though. Time really is the healer. You will be in my prayers.

[Chris]

With all due respect, this is another thing about well meaning white people. They like to define problems away. What's a black man? Let's just put this in the crytozoology room and let the kooks hash it out.

Race is something we define though.

And I was trying to steer discussion on topic.

[Mister D]

Race is something we define though.

And I was trying to steer discussion on topic.

I sort of get the objection to race as a biological construct (I don't agree with that objection) but if we're going to talk about it at all let's talk about it. If we want to define the problem away we're not talking about it. We're refusing to.

[exploited]

I had a death in the family on Monday so I haven't really been in the mood for this even though it has proved a convenient distraction here and there. All I will say for now is that @exploited it's precisely your premise that I object to.



This isn't only factually wrong but, if taken to heart and truly believed, it crushes a man's spirit. Worse still, if you tell a man that society will never let him succeed he will not only be useless but bitter and resentful as well. My comments were not directed toward policy (we can do some things as a society to help blacks) but to this fundamental problem with white sympathy. The overwhelmingly impression I get is that it's somehow morally wrong to suggest blacks take at least some kind of responsibility for themselves. That a man is ultimately responsible for his own life is a fundamental we instill in our children yet some of us seek to deny it to a whole race of people. Are they a race of morons? Helpless children? Are they inferior? Quite frankly, this is a white supremacist attitude sans the racial hatred. At the very least it has the same practical effect.

Let's also notice how all the poor white welfare recipients disappear when they aren't rhetorically useful. Not a shot at you personally, exploited. General comment. Never mind the uncanny ability of mestizo migrants to make a living.

Sorry for your loss, D. My father is one of my favourite people in the whole world, and I suspect yours was too. You're in my thoughts.

My premise is not wrong. The average is the average is the average. Most people are not capable of exceeding their circumstances. In fact, being able to do so is precisely what makes a man "great." This applies equally to whites as it does blacks and browns, or any other race.

I have already fully admitted that individual responsibility will and must play a role. It just isn't the totality of the solution. To give an example, I consider myself to be a pretty able person. I have overcome many barriers to success, and that is fantastic. But I am not going to argue that this was possible without the guidance of my parents. And I will not ignore that they themselves benefited from a stable and successful social network.

It is not morally wrong to suggest that blacks take responsibilities for themselves, anymore than it is to suggest that anyone take responsibility for themselves. Of course that isn't the whole of the matter. To give an extreme example, what does it matter what an individual is capable of when their neighbourhood is controlled by an organization like ISIS, or Nazis, or really any other group of that nature? It doesn't. Despite all of their inner potential, they will need a properly organized social network to succeed. Man is not an island.

[exploited]

So you can't refute the data you attack the messenger and his supposed ideology.

Rational? hardly.


My point about taxis had to do with medallions having nothing to do with insurance. Thanks for the lecture on orrelvant and know insurance policy.

Rational? Not.

This is literally incoherent.

Not sure how to go about requesting it, but can Chris be banned from this thread please? Thank you.

[Chris]

I sort of get the objection to race as a biological construct (I don't agree with that objection) but if we're going to talk about it at all let's talk about it. If we want to define the problem away we're not talking about it. We're refusing to.

I'm fine with talking about it, plainly, simply, rationally.