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Thread: A Thread About Race For Rational People

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    A Thread About Race For Rational People

    I'd like to discuss low-cost, high-impact solutions to violence and poverty in the black community. To spark things off, I will quote two posters from another post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris
    I think that's the solution, black people. As for issues, some is taking a victim mentality on things, some though too is what Tim Wise speaks of. But considering that, that within generations of enslavement and oppression, you have many successful blacks lends itself to the solution being blacks themselves. If the damned government would stop purchasing their poverty.

    Of course just my thoughts as a white man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Tim Wise is a douche bag.


    In any case, of course that's the solution.
    I disagree, although I'm sure you won't hold it against me, so long as we agree about the important stuff (like pizza).

    While cultivating individual excellence is necessary and important, and must play a role in addressing these issues, the simple fact is that most people are not exceptional (by definition). They are not particularly capable of rising above their circumstances, and that is true of any race, nationality or ethnicity. We are now living in a time where socioeconomic mobility is at an all-time low. Wealth inequality is also quite high, for many reasons, including government stupidity, but also rampant human greed (as a result of a widespread acceptance of unhealthy and narcissistic materialism).

    In order to change this, we need to be talking about a multi-pronged approach. It isn't enough to try and make all people into exceptionally motivated go-getters, primarily because it will never happen. Most people, regardless of education level, regardless of what they are taught or what they experience, are not suited for levels of responsibility beyond working a steady job and perhaps raising a family. Even then, that relies upon having access to a fair degree of stability. So to expect that blacks will be able to improve themselves solely by looking inwards is, I think, a big mistake.

    One of the best examples of a simple change we could make, in my opinion, is nutrition. Black urban youth are not eating well. They are not eating well from the time they are born to the time they are mature. These nutritional deficiencies result in drastically worse academic and personal performance. They are getting the calories they need, they aren't going to starve, but they aren't getting all the nutrients that proper development requires. The reasons for this are multiple - because cheap food is cheap, because they were never taught any different, because they don't have time, etc. So, in my opinion, one of the best and cheapest ways of helping people is to create secure community gardens, giving out free, fresh food from those gardens, teaching people how to cook cheaply and healthy, and using that as a means of building the community. Make schools serve fresh and healthy food, rather than french fries and hot dogs. Get kids eating well young, and they will probably eat well forever.

    http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/chil...tion-6555.html

    Data taken from The National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey revealed children with poor nutrition are more likely to miss days of school and be required to repeat grades. When a child does not get the required amounts of vitamins, minerals and other nutrients for health, it could lead to lethargy, a lack of energy and a general failure to thrive. The World Bank notes an association between improper childhood nutrition and lower IQ levels as well. These children are also more likely to be suspended and have difficulty maintaining friendships, in part due to their behavioral problems. A failure to thrive academically and socially, resulting from improper nutrition, can have lasting impacts throughout a person's life if it's not corrected early.
    This is just one example that would have a drastic impact on social outcomes for the black community. There are tons of others. We often look towards these "big changes" - like addressing wealth inequality, or ending mass incarceration, etc. as how we should do it. And that is definitely part of it. But it doesn't tell the whole story. There are tons and tons of ways to go about improving the lives of black children, which will have immediate result. Gang intervention and prevention is another sound strategy.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_Most_At_Risk

    The current study helps to fill this void in the literature by examining the relative risk of youth targeted for prevention and intervention services with a comparable sample of youth from the general school population in Cuyahoga County, Ohio. Results suggest that youth targeted by the program under study were significantly less at risk in three of the four risk domains examined, and in seven of the twelve associated subdomains. Further, the nontargeted sample had higher accumulated risk than the targeted sample, which is a robust predictor of gang involvement.
    What other ideas do you guys have?

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    I wasn't talking about individual excellence. Just self responsibility. And responsibility within and rto society.

    If you read some of economist Thomas Sowell's work on it you find the data suggests socioeconomic mobility is very high these days. What he also demonstrates is that you need to look at individuals, since it is individuals rising and falling, and that if you look at aggregate groups why you will always have some rich and some poor and some in between.

    For the rest I find that talking about blacks as a conglomerate whole is demeaning and won't do it.

    One low cost simple solution is suggested by Hernando de Soto Polar in The Mystery of Capital is to remove red tape to owning private property or capital in the sense of establishing business. For example, it can cost millions to purchase a medallion to own and drive a taxi, but why, it only protects establish, rich taxi companies. Remove the requirement for a medallion, licence people for a small fee contingent on insurance and the small investment of $20K would put many people in business earning a living.

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    Another aspect people don't realize is the effects lead has on a developing mind. Flint is only a pin $#@! in how many urban areas are affected by lead piping and old infrastructure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    Another aspect people don't realize is the effects lead has on a developing mind. Flint is only a pin $#@! in how many urban areas are affected by lead piping and old infrastructure.
    Not to mention sub standard nutrition among developing minds in areas that aren't serviced by actual grocery stores and ignorance of nutrition standards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    Another aspect people don't realize is the effects lead has on a developing mind. Flint is only a pin $#@! in how many urban areas are affected by lead piping and old infrastructure.
    Safety white people through the 19th century raised children in lead painted tenements. I grew up my entire young life in lead based paint tenements and projects. ALL children were raised with lead based paint because thats all there was. Its an excuse and nothing more.

    Theres far less lead paint now than ever before because its been banned. At least kids today dont go to school in schools full of lead paint like we did
    Last edited by Common; 09-21-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I wasn't talking about individual excellence. Just self responsibility. And responsibility within and rto society.

    If you read some of economist Thomas Sowell's work on it you find the data suggests socioeconomic mobility is very high these days. What he also demonstrates is that you need to look at individuals, since it is individuals rising and falling, and that if you look at aggregate groups why you will always have some rich and some poor and some in between.

    For the rest I find that talking about blacks as a conglomerate whole is demeaning and won't do it.

    One low cost simple solution is suggested by Hernando de Soto Polar in The Mystery of Capital is to remove red tape to owning private property or capital in the sense of establishing business. For example, it can cost millions to purchase a medallion to own and drive a taxi, but why, it only protects establish, rich taxi companies. Remove the requirement for a medallion, licence people for a small fee contingent on insurance and the small investment of $20K would put many people in business earning a living.
    Thomas Sowell is a half-way decent academic, but his work on socioeconomic mobility is deeply flawed. It is mostly a reflection of his ideology, rather than an objective assessment of the facts, using rigorous longitudinal data. The fact is that the "heritability" of your parents income class is at least 40%, and as high as 60%, depending on who you ask. This is referred to as intergenerational socioeconomic mobility.



    There is nothing demeaning about talking about populations, so long as it is understood that speaking about things "in general" is exactly that. That is a politically correct attitude that I reject wholeheartedly.

    The reason why it costs alot for a taxi cab is because you are providing a business service, which requires a substantial amount of additional insurance. Rates are calculated based on averages, and a person who drives cab for a living faces substantially more risk than a person who might carry a passenger once a day. That said, the city model whereupon there is a limited number of medallions necessitates an ever-increasing value of the medallion. And so I think your idea is a good one for people who have the money to purchase and maintain a car, and pay between $5-10k a year for commercial taxi insurance. Assuming the absence of a rigorous regulatory system over taxis, that rate is bound to go up, as insurance companies will have to adjust the cost to account for people who may or may not maintain their car.

    Taking a look at average earnings (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html), we can see that a full 40% of blacks earn between $10-35k per year in the US. This makes buying, maintaining and insuring a taxi cab unattainable. Considering that the median taxi driver wage in the US (http://money.usnews.com/careers/best...auffeur/salary) is about $23k, it makes no sense for them to do this on their own. So while the idea is nice, your specific example doesn't work out. Did you have another one?

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    The biggest problem is these communities have no HOPE

    So I like the nutrition Idea that is an easy fix. Food Stamps and School Food programs can only be whole foods.

    No processed foods allowed. Using Charitable organizations to have community Gardens another Great Idea.

    Next you need to educate the people that live in these areas. That is easy too. Vouchers for the students. Let the parents use that money any way that they want too. To get a better education for their child.

    Welfare to workfare. The idle mind is the devil's work shop. So all able bodied people will not be earning there assistance by making their neighborhood a better place to live Working with Charities like Habitat for Humanity, and preforming basic repairs will do 2 things. #1 it keeps these hands busy so they don't get into trouble They also learn a skill. #2 as the community looks better, people will start to take pride in their areas and put and end to the destruction of Gangs and Thugs.

    You have to have safety. It is just a fact that some of these areas are filled with people that are not good people.

    This means Police and this means bad guys are not going to like it and get violent. BLM is going to have to change and be part of the solution and not the problem

    And after that we can create enterprise zones to being in new industry to give them jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    Safety white people through the 19th century raised children in lead painted tenements. I grew up my entire young life in lead based paint tenements and projects. ALL children were raised with lead based paint because thats all there was. Its an excuse and nothing more.

    Theres far less lead paint now than ever before because its been banned. At least kids today dont go to school in schools full of lead paint like we did
    Yes common, I'm aware that white people raised their kids among lead paint. Who do you think made the studies that showed the effects lead has on developing brains? It was white doctors studying white children. Are you trying to say that because children in the 19th century were exposed to lead paint, that it somehow dismisses lead being an issue with developing minds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    Another aspect people don't realize is the effects lead has on a developing mind. Flint is only a pin $#@! in how many urban areas are affected by lead piping and old infrastructure.
    This is actually a very fair and valid point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    Safety white people through the 19th century raised children in lead painted tenements. I grew up my entire young life in lead based paint tenements and projects. ALL children were raised with lead based paint because thats all there was. Its an excuse and nothing more.

    Theres far less lead paint now than ever before because its been banned. At least kids today dont go to school in schools full of lead paint like we did
    The probability of being exposed to lead and other dangerous chemicals modern times is more socio-economic than anything, but since black Americans are more likely to be poorer than white Americas, it is going to effect them at a higher rate overall, which would show up in overall IQs and other metrics.

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