User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 54

Thread: Productive discourse on race - Safety vs. Captain Obvious

  1. #1

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 121,120, Level: 84
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 1,730
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialTagger First ClassCreated Album picturesYour first GroupRecommendation First Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Adelaide's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    338941
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    N. Pole and VA
    Posts
    26,496
    Points
    121,120
    Level
    84
    Thanks Given
    3,539
    Thanked 16,065x in 10,252 Posts
    Mentioned
    1571 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Productive discourse on race - Safety vs. Captain Obvious

    @Safety @Captain Obvious


    According to the other thread, you'd like to have a "productive [discussion] on race and current racial issues in the US." Let 'er rip. Should be interesting.

  2. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Adelaide For This Useful Post:

    ADMIN (09-23-2016),Captain Obvious (09-23-2016),Cthulhu (10-01-2017),FindersKeepers (09-23-2016),Green Arrow (09-23-2016),nic34 (10-18-2016),Ravens Fan (09-23-2016),Trish (10-10-2017),zelmo1234 (09-23-2016)

  3. #2
    Original Ranter
    Points: 280,487, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second Class50000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteranYour first Group
    Captain Obvious's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    771915
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    77,573
    Points
    280,487
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    28,009
    Thanked 38,059x in 25,827 Posts
    Mentioned
    995 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    ok - I'll kick this off, throwing out a couple of talking points to get things rolling.

    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community? What's holding the black community back from being, on the whole, productive members of society like most other races?

    2) What is the white communities role in this? What responsibilities are on society for the successes and failures of the black community?

    3) What is racism? Who are the racists? On that point, what is bigotry and who are the bigots?

    4) Why are the current processes to combat inequality and racism working or not working? Like PC, affirmative action?

    5) Finally, what is governments role in all of this? Are they promoting equality, true equality or are they pandering and/or playing the game?


    Feel free to toss yours out also, I hope you do. I'm just putting these out there as a way to get things rolling.

    Come at me bro!

    my junk is ugly

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Captain Obvious For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (09-23-2016)

  5. #3
    Points: 111,009, Level: 81
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 2,641
    Overall activity: 18.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassVeteran
    Safety's Avatar Nationalist
    Karma
    2614854
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    GA/FL
    Posts
    47,727
    Points
    111,009
    Level
    81
    Thanks Given
    22,881
    Thanked 21,339x in 14,515 Posts
    Mentioned
    1147 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community? What's holding the black community back from being, on the whole, productive members of society like most other races?

    In my opinion, the major reasons for the dysfunction and violence in the inner cities with focuses on blacks due to their overwhelming representation is due to several factors. I think the major ones are the fact that so many are living above means (mainly black women) and doing things like co-signing for cars, credit cards, and loan applications for a man theyíre not married to and wind up being the one whoís having to pay the bill. Itís stuff like that which addresses the nonsense within the community with black women taking care of a man theyíre not married to.
    Chronic incarcerations among black men is contributing to the dysfunction and discord because they canít do anything for their children, wives, and significant others. What can a man who is locked up do aside from writing letters, calling home, and getting periodical visits? Nothing and is likely to return to prison on a parole violation and/or on a new case. People refuse to address some issues within the community because it seems as if itís a badge of shame to call out individual(s) on their BS nonsense. All those factors are compounded when there is an air of impropriety being handed out to the inner city communities with paid public servants acting as judge, jury, and executer in some cases.

    2) What is the white communities role in this? What responsibilities are on society for the successes and failures of the black community?

    White communities? Zero. (depending on how you take the next paragraph)

    Society? A lot. If we are to generalize that the majority of the country is white, then juxtapose that generalization as everything that happens is because of whites, then the flip side of that should be, everything that falls on society is white also, no? I donít think you would agree with that sentence, so that is the type of thinking we need to distance ourselves from. When people are protesting the actions of a police officer shooting someone who is unarmed, and the video evidence released shows that there was no immediate threat, that is not a blight on white people or indicative of whites. It is directed towards the police. If we are able to ignore the knee-jerk talking points and focus on the cusp of the issue, then you will see that most folks want what you and I wantÖthe ability to provide for our families and be left alone to our own devices.

    3) What is racism? Who are the racists? On that point, what is bigotry and who are the bigots?

    Racism is a term that has evolved to include everything not listed in the dictionary. It is as abused as much as the term progressive is abused. But basically, I consider anything to be racist that could be attributed to a person solely due to their skin color. Saying white people canít dance is a racist statement, just like saying black folks are only good at sports due to fast muscle twitches. Bigotry is subcomponent of racism, that ignored can manifest into full blown racism. Think about the events leading up to the holocaust. It just didnít happen one day that someone said, letís persecute the Jews. No, it was a 7-10 year process that used propaganda and fear to arrive at the point where Jews were lead into the gas chambers. Now, Iím not saying anything like that is going to happen, but it was used to show that things donít manifest themselves overnight and it takes time to sway the public, good or bad. Serious question, how many websites are dedicated to nothing but showing black people doing bad things compared to websites showing white people doing the same? According to the FBI database, black people are overwhelming killing blacks at a rate of ~ 95%, so where do sites like whitegirlbleedalot.com get their data? I mean, if taken at face value, the stats would have to show that blacks are committing 75-90% of the crime in the country compared to their white counterparts, but that isnít even close to what the FBI reports. Even taking the demographics into consideration, blacks are responsible for 51% of murders in this country and 95% of those are each other, so the facts donít seem to jive with reality.

    4) Why are the current processes to combat inequality and racism working or not working? Like PC, affirmative action?

    One of the biggest reasons is due to the pushback and resolve people didnít think most folks would have. The average public arenít really that intelligent and will follow like sheep any shiny object placed before them. That is why reality shows like Honey Boo-Boo and the Kardashians are more popular than science or documentary shows. All it takes is a couple of loud talkers to plant the seed of discourse for things to be blown out of proportion. Think of whenever Al Sharpton speaks about an event that happens before the facts are known and how he incites people to be outraged. It happens on both sides constantly, so itís not that hard to understand that anything that was set into place to help blacks could be argued as not needed or not fair. I always askÖif white women receive more AA than blacks, why are blacks the only oneís mentioned when the topic of AA comes up?

    5) Finally, what is governments role in all of this? Are they promoting equality, true equality or are they pandering and/or playing the game?

    Government has a role, although not as a big of a role as in the past, but a role nonetheless. You see, when the southern states decided to try and marginalize and oppress blacks, the government were the entity that stepped in and made people whole again. When the KKK was riding around lynching and burning crosses on folkís lawns, the local law enforcement was some of the guys wearing the sheets or were friends with the sheet wearers, so nothing was getting done on the local and state level. The federal government had to step in and bring justice for citizens who were treated like they were not citizens by the locals.

    This is all I dare to write on my phone, but I will expound on it more if needed.

  6. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Safety For This Useful Post:

    Captain Obvious (09-23-2016),Common Sense (10-18-2016),Cthulhu (10-01-2017),gamewell45 (10-14-2017),OhioAmerican (02-03-2018),Orion Rules (02-06-2018),Peter1469 (09-23-2016),Ravens Fan (09-23-2016),Trish (10-10-2017),zelmo1234 (09-23-2016)

  7. #4
    Original Ranter
    Points: 280,487, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second Class50000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteranYour first Group
    Captain Obvious's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    771915
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    77,573
    Points
    280,487
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    28,009
    Thanked 38,059x in 25,827 Posts
    Mentioned
    995 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community? What's holding the black community back from being, on the whole, productive members of society like most other races?

    In my opinion, the major reasons for the dysfunction and violence in the inner cities with focuses on blacks due to their overwhelming representation is due to several factors. I think the major ones are the fact that so many are living above means (mainly black women) and doing things like co-signing for cars, credit cards, and loan applications for a man they’re not married to and wind up being the one who’s having to pay the bill. It’s stuff like that which addresses the nonsense within the community with black women taking care of a man they’re not married to.
    Chronic incarcerations among black men is contributing to the dysfunction and discord because they can’t do anything for their children, wives, and significant others. What can a man who is locked up do aside from writing letters, calling home, and getting periodical visits? Nothing and is likely to return to prison on a parole violation and/or on a new case. People refuse to address some issues within the community because it seems as if it’s a badge of shame to call out individual(s) on their BS nonsense. All those factors are compounded when there is an air of impropriety being handed out to the inner city communities with paid public servants acting as judge, jury, and executer in some cases.
    You wrote this on your phone? Gawd bless ya, I've been looking at this all day waiting to get to my laptop because I sure as hell wasn't doing this one-fat-fingered lol.

    ok - let's look at the first paragraph, take this in steps. I don't know the economic stats but you're implying black women live beyond their means. Assuming there is some accuracy here, why do you think that is? How are women in other races, to some degree, living within their means and not falling into this trap?

    Could it be influence? Maybe black women are influenced by the environment they expose themselves to. For example a black pop/rap chic singer might produce videos of her in furs, in a small mansion, in a pricey sports car where there may be few black role models (like moms for example, or pop culture role models) who may not be influencing these women in a positive way?

    I think there are a lot of women role models both black and white out there, there are a lot of strong women who want to help other women but for some reason are these women not reaching the black community?

    This is interesting, black families had a reputation for a while there I think, historically, as being strong family units. If so, where was the breakdown? Did it ironically happen after the black empowerment and equal rights movement and if so why?

    I think the same concept can be extended to black males, who are their role models? Who do they look at and say "that's who I want to be like"? Fathers are usually the #1 role model in this sense and many black youths live their lives with little exposure to their natural fathers or any father at all. I think any community strength (or weakness) is rooted in the family unit and if that unit is not in tact, individuals grow up not knowing how to live their lives productively and responsibly.
    my junk is ugly

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Captain Obvious For This Useful Post:

    gamewell45 (10-14-2017),Peter1469 (09-23-2016),Safety (09-23-2016),Trish (10-10-2017)

  9. #5
    Points: 111,009, Level: 81
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 2,641
    Overall activity: 18.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassVeteran
    Safety's Avatar Nationalist
    Karma
    2614854
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    GA/FL
    Posts
    47,727
    Points
    111,009
    Level
    81
    Thanks Given
    22,881
    Thanked 21,339x in 14,515 Posts
    Mentioned
    1147 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    You wrote this on your phone? Gawd bless ya, I've been looking at this all day waiting to get to my laptop because I sure as hell wasn't doing this one-fat-fingered lol.

    ok - let's look at the first paragraph, take this in steps. I don't know the economic stats but you're implying black women live beyond their means. Assuming there is some accuracy here, why do you think that is? How are women in other races, to some degree, living within their means and not falling into this trap?

    Could it be influence? Maybe black women are influenced by the environment they expose themselves to. For example a black pop/rap chic singer might produce videos of her in furs, in a small mansion, in a pricey sports car where there may be few black role models (like moms for example, or pop culture role models) who may not be influencing these women in a positive way?

    I think there are a lot of women role models both black and white out there, there are a lot of strong women who want to help other women but for some reason are these women not reaching the black community?

    This is interesting, black families had a reputation for a while there I think, historically, as being strong family units. If so, where was the breakdown? Did it ironically happen after the black empowerment and equal rights movement and if so why?

    I think the same concept can be extended to black males, who are their role models? Who do they look at and say "that's who I want to be like"? Fathers are usually the #1 role model in this sense and many black youths live their lives with little exposure to their natural fathers or any father at all. I think any community strength (or weakness) is rooted in the family unit and if that unit is not in tact, individuals grow up not knowing how to live their lives productively and responsibly.
    Well, to be fair, it is more like a phablet (Huawei Mate 8). But to your point, yes, it is primarily black women, now what that is due to is up for interpretation. We must remember that we are talking about a group of people that were not allowed to assimilate into the "american" culture for over several generations, so they were forced to create their own. Even when blacks created their own "mecca" in the US, some decided that it was not acceptable and burned it down (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot). When people get hit upside the head enough, eventually they stop trying. There is another thread on the subject about blacks getting ridiculed for "acting white" and so forth, and it is really no different than white people being called "guilt ridden white libs". Once we get rid of those harmful stigmas and focus on getting everyone to understand that like it or not, we are all citizens and should be given the same consideration they give others, and not base it upon the color of one's skin, the better our country will be.

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Safety For This Useful Post:

    Captain Obvious (09-24-2016),del (09-23-2016),nic34 (10-18-2016),Peter1469 (09-24-2016),Trish (10-10-2017)

  11. #6
    Original Ranter
    Points: 280,487, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second Class50000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteranYour first Group
    Captain Obvious's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    771915
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    77,573
    Points
    280,487
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    28,009
    Thanked 38,059x in 25,827 Posts
    Mentioned
    995 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    This is going to be good. I'm drunk right now lol, I'll hit this tomorrow morning when I'm full of piss an vinegar.

    Plus I have to google Phablet and Huawei. This $#@! better be good.

    my junk is ugly

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Captain Obvious For This Useful Post:

    Safety (09-24-2016)

  13. #7
    Points: 22,529, Level: 36
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 621
    Overall activity: 28.0%
    Achievements:
    3 months registered10000 Experience Points
    Scrounger's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    17995
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,433
    Points
    22,529
    Level
    36
    Thanks Given
    421
    Thanked 311x in 237 Posts
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't know if I can argue race as good as Internet commandos from either side. This is basically an observation:

    In Chicago, it is predominantly black. ALL of its representatives are black. We're talking city council, county level, sheriff, state and federal representatives. The city of Chicago fails to assimilate. I know all of you have theories.

    In Georgia, over HALF of all violent crime comes from five precincts. There are 159 counties in Georgia; four police precincts in my home county - so you do the math. All of the Georgia high crime precincts are places where blacks are more than 65 percent of the population.

    While I don't know about Chicago, the reality is a determined youth could walk twenty miles out of Atlanta to a more job friendly area, get a job and get out of the "hood, IF that is the argument. Sure, for a couple of weeks they may have to take $#@! baths and sleep outside, but there are fast food jobs, warehouse jobs, and construction type jobs and landscaping all around here.

    I've known of people to come here from foreign countries, sleep in the car, get a job and join the health spa in order to have a place for a daily shower / shave until they got some money together.

    With all the billions made by rich blacks, you'd think they would go into those predominantly black areas, do some investing and make them the envy of our country. Instead, they choose to remain with the whites. Sooo... I'm not seeing black people do things to help themselves and their black leadership isn't turning things around for them. The blacks aren't going in and doing things with the big bucks.

    It's obvious to me that they cannot assimilate. So, we're trying to become a socialized cesspool in the vain effort that we can make different cultures equal.
    Last edited by Scrounger; 10-17-2016 at 01:33 PM.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Scrounger For This Useful Post:

    nathanbforrest45 (10-17-2016)

  15. #8
    Points: 59,853, Level: 59
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 497
    Overall activity: 17.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    nathanbforrest45's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    72049
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    In a house on a hill
    Posts
    22,550
    Points
    59,853
    Level
    59
    Thanks Given
    4,713
    Thanked 10,348x in 7,287 Posts
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So far a very good discussion. Keep it up guys.
    Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #9
    Original Ranter
    Points: 538,689, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 71.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    428751
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    161,309
    Points
    538,689
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    95,067
    Thanked 79,731x in 53,786 Posts
    Mentioned
    2236 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I know I left New Orleans because it broke my heart at its lost opportunity.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Please visit my blog http://thepoliticalforums.com/blogs/peter/
    (If a post link does not work, see the archives- it should work there.)

  17. #10

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 81,795, Level: 69
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 655
    Overall activity: 41.0%
    Achievements:
    Recommendation Second ClassSocial50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassYour first GroupVeteran
    DGUtley's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    170062
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    19,921
    Points
    81,795
    Level
    69
    Thanks Given
    6,793
    Thanked 15,324x in 8,792 Posts
    Mentioned
    534 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Interesting. I'm awaiting more.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Single Sign On provided by vBSSO