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Thread: Productive discourse on race - Safety vs. Captain Obvious

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    Productive discourse on race - Safety vs. Captain Obvious

    @Safety @Captain Obvious


    According to the other thread, you'd like to have a "productive [discussion] on race and current racial issues in the US." Let 'er rip. Should be interesting.

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    ok - I'll kick this off, throwing out a couple of talking points to get things rolling.

    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community? What's holding the black community back from being, on the whole, productive members of society like most other races?

    2) What is the white communities role in this? What responsibilities are on society for the successes and failures of the black community?

    3) What is racism? Who are the racists? On that point, what is bigotry and who are the bigots?

    4) Why are the current processes to combat inequality and racism working or not working? Like PC, affirmative action?

    5) Finally, what is governments role in all of this? Are they promoting equality, true equality or are they pandering and/or playing the game?


    Feel free to toss yours out also, I hope you do. I'm just putting these out there as a way to get things rolling.

    Come at me bro!

    my junk is ugly

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    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community? What's holding the black community back from being, on the whole, productive members of society like most other races?

    In my opinion, the major reasons for the dysfunction and violence in the inner cities with focuses on blacks due to their overwhelming representation is due to several factors. I think the major ones are the fact that so many are living above means (mainly black women) and doing things like co-signing for cars, credit cards, and loan applications for a man they’re not married to and wind up being the one who’s having to pay the bill. It’s stuff like that which addresses the nonsense within the community with black women taking care of a man they’re not married to.
    Chronic incarcerations among black men is contributing to the dysfunction and discord because they can’t do anything for their children, wives, and significant others. What can a man who is locked up do aside from writing letters, calling home, and getting periodical visits? Nothing and is likely to return to prison on a parole violation and/or on a new case. People refuse to address some issues within the community because it seems as if it’s a badge of shame to call out individual(s) on their BS nonsense. All those factors are compounded when there is an air of impropriety being handed out to the inner city communities with paid public servants acting as judge, jury, and executer in some cases.

    2) What is the white communities role in this? What responsibilities are on society for the successes and failures of the black community?

    White communities? Zero. (depending on how you take the next paragraph)

    Society? A lot. If we are to generalize that the majority of the country is white, then juxtapose that generalization as everything that happens is because of whites, then the flip side of that should be, everything that falls on society is white also, no? I don’t think you would agree with that sentence, so that is the type of thinking we need to distance ourselves from. When people are protesting the actions of a police officer shooting someone who is unarmed, and the video evidence released shows that there was no immediate threat, that is not a blight on white people or indicative of whites. It is directed towards the police. If we are able to ignore the knee-jerk talking points and focus on the cusp of the issue, then you will see that most folks want what you and I want…the ability to provide for our families and be left alone to our own devices.

    3) What is racism? Who are the racists? On that point, what is bigotry and who are the bigots?

    Racism is a term that has evolved to include everything not listed in the dictionary. It is as abused as much as the term progressive is abused. But basically, I consider anything to be racist that could be attributed to a person solely due to their skin color. Saying white people can’t dance is a racist statement, just like saying black folks are only good at sports due to fast muscle twitches. Bigotry is subcomponent of racism, that ignored can manifest into full blown racism. Think about the events leading up to the holocaust. It just didn’t happen one day that someone said, let’s persecute the Jews. No, it was a 7-10 year process that used propaganda and fear to arrive at the point where Jews were lead into the gas chambers. Now, I’m not saying anything like that is going to happen, but it was used to show that things don’t manifest themselves overnight and it takes time to sway the public, good or bad. Serious question, how many websites are dedicated to nothing but showing black people doing bad things compared to websites showing white people doing the same? According to the FBI database, black people are overwhelming killing blacks at a rate of ~ 95%, so where do sites like whitegirlbleedalot.com get their data? I mean, if taken at face value, the stats would have to show that blacks are committing 75-90% of the crime in the country compared to their white counterparts, but that isn’t even close to what the FBI reports. Even taking the demographics into consideration, blacks are responsible for 51% of murders in this country and 95% of those are each other, so the facts don’t seem to jive with reality.

    4) Why are the current processes to combat inequality and racism working or not working? Like PC, affirmative action?

    One of the biggest reasons is due to the pushback and resolve people didn’t think most folks would have. The average public aren’t really that intelligent and will follow like sheep any shiny object placed before them. That is why reality shows like Honey Boo-Boo and the Kardashians are more popular than science or documentary shows. All it takes is a couple of loud talkers to plant the seed of discourse for things to be blown out of proportion. Think of whenever Al Sharpton speaks about an event that happens before the facts are known and how he incites people to be outraged. It happens on both sides constantly, so it’s not that hard to understand that anything that was set into place to help blacks could be argued as not needed or not fair. I always ask…if white women receive more AA than blacks, why are blacks the only one’s mentioned when the topic of AA comes up?

    5) Finally, what is governments role in all of this? Are they promoting equality, true equality or are they pandering and/or playing the game?

    Government has a role, although not as a big of a role as in the past, but a role nonetheless. You see, when the southern states decided to try and marginalize and oppress blacks, the government were the entity that stepped in and made people whole again. When the KKK was riding around lynching and burning crosses on folk’s lawns, the local law enforcement was some of the guys wearing the sheets or were friends with the sheet wearers, so nothing was getting done on the local and state level. The federal government had to step in and bring justice for citizens who were treated like they were not citizens by the locals.

    This is all I dare to write on my phone, but I will expound on it more if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community? What's holding the black community back from being, on the whole, productive members of society like most other races?

    In my opinion, the major reasons for the dysfunction and violence in the inner cities with focuses on blacks due to their overwhelming representation is due to several factors. I think the major ones are the fact that so many are living above means (mainly black women) and doing things like co-signing for cars, credit cards, and loan applications for a man they’re not married to and wind up being the one who’s having to pay the bill. It’s stuff like that which addresses the nonsense within the community with black women taking care of a man they’re not married to.
    Chronic incarcerations among black men is contributing to the dysfunction and discord because they can’t do anything for their children, wives, and significant others. What can a man who is locked up do aside from writing letters, calling home, and getting periodical visits? Nothing and is likely to return to prison on a parole violation and/or on a new case. People refuse to address some issues within the community because it seems as if it’s a badge of shame to call out individual(s) on their BS nonsense. All those factors are compounded when there is an air of impropriety being handed out to the inner city communities with paid public servants acting as judge, jury, and executer in some cases.
    You wrote this on your phone? Gawd bless ya, I've been looking at this all day waiting to get to my laptop because I sure as hell wasn't doing this one-fat-fingered lol.

    ok - let's look at the first paragraph, take this in steps. I don't know the economic stats but you're implying black women live beyond their means. Assuming there is some accuracy here, why do you think that is? How are women in other races, to some degree, living within their means and not falling into this trap?

    Could it be influence? Maybe black women are influenced by the environment they expose themselves to. For example a black pop/rap chic singer might produce videos of her in furs, in a small mansion, in a pricey sports car where there may be few black role models (like moms for example, or pop culture role models) who may not be influencing these women in a positive way?

    I think there are a lot of women role models both black and white out there, there are a lot of strong women who want to help other women but for some reason are these women not reaching the black community?

    This is interesting, black families had a reputation for a while there I think, historically, as being strong family units. If so, where was the breakdown? Did it ironically happen after the black empowerment and equal rights movement and if so why?

    I think the same concept can be extended to black males, who are their role models? Who do they look at and say "that's who I want to be like"? Fathers are usually the #1 role model in this sense and many black youths live their lives with little exposure to their natural fathers or any father at all. I think any community strength (or weakness) is rooted in the family unit and if that unit is not in tact, individuals grow up not knowing how to live their lives productively and responsibly.
    my junk is ugly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    You wrote this on your phone? Gawd bless ya, I've been looking at this all day waiting to get to my laptop because I sure as hell wasn't doing this one-fat-fingered lol.

    ok - let's look at the first paragraph, take this in steps. I don't know the economic stats but you're implying black women live beyond their means. Assuming there is some accuracy here, why do you think that is? How are women in other races, to some degree, living within their means and not falling into this trap?

    Could it be influence? Maybe black women are influenced by the environment they expose themselves to. For example a black pop/rap chic singer might produce videos of her in furs, in a small mansion, in a pricey sports car where there may be few black role models (like moms for example, or pop culture role models) who may not be influencing these women in a positive way?

    I think there are a lot of women role models both black and white out there, there are a lot of strong women who want to help other women but for some reason are these women not reaching the black community?

    This is interesting, black families had a reputation for a while there I think, historically, as being strong family units. If so, where was the breakdown? Did it ironically happen after the black empowerment and equal rights movement and if so why?

    I think the same concept can be extended to black males, who are their role models? Who do they look at and say "that's who I want to be like"? Fathers are usually the #1 role model in this sense and many black youths live their lives with little exposure to their natural fathers or any father at all. I think any community strength (or weakness) is rooted in the family unit and if that unit is not in tact, individuals grow up not knowing how to live their lives productively and responsibly.
    Well, to be fair, it is more like a phablet (Huawei Mate 8). But to your point, yes, it is primarily black women, now what that is due to is up for interpretation. We must remember that we are talking about a group of people that were not allowed to assimilate into the "american" culture for over several generations, so they were forced to create their own. Even when blacks created their own "mecca" in the US, some decided that it was not acceptable and burned it down (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot). When people get hit upside the head enough, eventually they stop trying. There is another thread on the subject about blacks getting ridiculed for "acting white" and so forth, and it is really no different than white people being called "guilt ridden white libs". Once we get rid of those harmful stigmas and focus on getting everyone to understand that like it or not, we are all citizens and should be given the same consideration they give others, and not base it upon the color of one's skin, the better our country will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community? What's holding the black community back from being, on the whole, productive members of society like most other races?

    In my opinion, the major reasons for the dysfunction and violence in the inner cities with focuses on blacks due to their overwhelming representation is due to several factors. I think the major ones are the fact that so many are living above means (mainly black women) and doing things like co-signing for cars, credit cards, and loan applications for a man they’re not married to and wind up being the one who’s having to pay the bill. It’s stuff like that which addresses the nonsense within the community with black women taking care of a man they’re not married to.
    Chronic incarcerations among black men is contributing to the dysfunction and discord because they can’t do anything for their children, wives, and significant others. What can a man who is locked up do aside from writing letters, calling home, and getting periodical visits? Nothing and is likely to return to prison on a parole violation and/or on a new case. People refuse to address some issues within the community because it seems as if it’s a badge of shame to call out individual(s) on their BS nonsense. All those factors are compounded when there is an air of impropriety being handed out to the inner city communities with paid public servants acting as judge, jury, and executer in some cases.

    2) What is the white communities role in this? What responsibilities are on society for the successes and failures of the black community?

    White communities? Zero. (depending on how you take the next paragraph)

    Society? A lot. If we are to generalize that the majority of the country is white, then juxtapose that generalization as everything that happens is because of whites, then the flip side of that should be, everything that falls on society is white also, no? I don’t think you would agree with that sentence, so that is the type of thinking we need to distance ourselves from. When people are protesting the actions of a police officer shooting someone who is unarmed, and the video evidence released shows that there was no immediate threat, that is not a blight on white people or indicative of whites. It is directed towards the police. If we are able to ignore the knee-jerk talking points and focus on the cusp of the issue, then you will see that most folks want what you and I want…the ability to provide for our families and be left alone to our own devices.

    3) What is racism? Who are the racists? On that point, what is bigotry and who are the bigots?

    Racism is a term that has evolved to include everything not listed in the dictionary. It is as abused as much as the term progressive is abused. But basically, I consider anything to be racist that could be attributed to a person solely due to their skin color. Saying white people can’t dance is a racist statement, just like saying black folks are only good at sports due to fast muscle twitches. Bigotry is subcomponent of racism, that ignored can manifest into full blown racism. Think about the events leading up to the holocaust. It just didn’t happen one day that someone said, let’s persecute the Jews. No, it was a 7-10 year process that used propaganda and fear to arrive at the point where Jews were lead into the gas chambers. Now, I’m not saying anything like that is going to happen, but it was used to show that things don’t manifest themselves overnight and it takes time to sway the public, good or bad. Serious question, how many websites are dedicated to nothing but showing black people doing bad things compared to websites showing white people doing the same? According to the FBI database, black people are overwhelming killing blacks at a rate of ~ 95%, so where do sites like whitegirlbleedalot.com get their data? I mean, if taken at face value, the stats would have to show that blacks are committing 75-90% of the crime in the country compared to their white counterparts, but that isn’t even close to what the FBI reports. Even taking the demographics into consideration, blacks are responsible for 51% of murders in this country and 95% of those are each other, so the facts don’t seem to jive with reality.

    4) Why are the current processes to combat inequality and racism working or not working? Like PC, affirmative action?

    One of the biggest reasons is due to the pushback and resolve people didn’t think most folks would have. The average public aren’t really that intelligent and will follow like sheep any shiny object placed before them. That is why reality shows like Honey Boo-Boo and the Kardashians are more popular than science or documentary shows. All it takes is a couple of loud talkers to plant the seed of discourse for things to be blown out of proportion. Think of whenever Al Sharpton speaks about an event that happens before the facts are known and how he incites people to be outraged. It happens on both sides constantly, so it’s not that hard to understand that anything that was set into place to help blacks could be argued as not needed or not fair. I always ask…if white women receive more AA than blacks, why are blacks the only one’s mentioned when the topic of AA comes up?

    5) Finally, what is governments role in all of this? Are they promoting equality, true equality or are they pandering and/or playing the game?

    Government has a role, although not as a big of a role as in the past, but a role nonetheless. You see, when the southern states decided to try and marginalize and oppress blacks, the government were the entity that stepped in and made people whole again. When the KKK was riding around lynching and burning crosses on folk’s lawns, the local law enforcement was some of the guys wearing the sheets or were friends with the sheet wearers, so nothing was getting done on the local and state level. The federal government had to step in and bring justice for citizens who were treated like they were not citizens by the locals.

    This is all I dare to write on my phone, but I will expound on it more if needed.
    I read this for the first time today for some reason I never come down here. Excellently written by safety
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    ok - I'll kick this off, throwing out a couple of talking points to get things rolling.

    1) What are the primary reasons for violence and dysfunction in the black community?
    The primary reason is the breakdown of the family unit. Too many boys growing up with no Father in the home. No positive male role model in their like. It's not any more complicated than that.

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    Cool

    1) ... primary reason for violence and dysfunction in the black community?

    Racism.


    And that is every since Thaddeus Stevens was shut down for trying to give freed slaves' families "40 acres and a mule". Yes of the same lands which those cotton-picking slaves did morph into, leader, of the Free World. America set a foundation back then.

    So I will again refer to my fav GOP Republican and White Supremacist Ann Coulter, who also admitted it.

    America created a foundation back then of disparate racism and Inequality, which fuel the self-genocide and destruction you allude to.
    Yes and today it compels us to deceitfully blame the Black Race for their own deteriorating existence, in order for the other 88% of Americans to sleep peacefully at night ---in hopes that racism's ghosts don't come shake any beds.

    3) What is racism?

    It is wherever some of human's unique physical or obvious race-based traits, are used to unfairly control any democratic or republic sovereignty.

    Who are the racists?

    Those unethical and immoral people who control the society's scarce resources and opportunities, by which they do unfairly access those elements as according to racial characteristics which they favor.

    5) Finally, what is governments role in all of this? Are they promoting equality, true equality or are they pandering and/or playing the game?

    The GOVT agencies are the biggest racists.
    They are pandering and playing the game, as we saw in how Obama/Holder DOJ investigated 200+ cops for civil rights violations from 2009-'16. Guess how many they charged with crimes?
    Last edited by Raffishragabash; 10-23-2018 at 04:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffishragabash View Post
    1) ... primary reason for violence and dysfunction in the black community?

    Racism.


    And that is every since Thaddeus Stevens was shut down for trying to give freed slaves' families "40 acres and a mule". Yes of the same lands which those cotton-picking slaves did morph into, leader, of the Free World. America set a foundation back then.

    So I will again refer to my fav GOP Republican and White Supremacist Ann Coulter, who also admitted it.

    America created a foundation back then of disparate racism and Inequality, which fuel the self-genocide and destruction you allude to.
    Yes and today it compels us to deceitfully blame the Black Race for their own deteriorating existence, in order for the other 88% of Americans to sleep peacefully at night ---in hopes that racism's ghosts don't come shake any beds.

    3) What is racism?

    It is wherever some of human's unique physical or obvious race-based traits, are used to unfairly control any democratic or republic sovereignty.

    Who are the racists?

    Those unethical and immoral people who control the society's scarce resources and opportunities, by which they do unfairly access those elements as according to racial characteristics which they favor.

    5) Finally, what is governments role in all of this? Are they promoting equality, true equality or are they pandering and/or playing the game?

    The GOVT agencies are the biggest racists.
    They are pandering and playing the game, as we saw in how Obama/Holder DOJ investigated 200+ cops for civil rights violations from 2009-'16. Guess how many they charged with crimes?
    Where did you steal that bike?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Where did you steal that bike?
    resister?
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