Second Sailor 'Under Review' for Refusing to Stand for Anthem

[Standing Wolf]

Only a very lower class, poorly educated English person would pronounce the words 'power' or 'hour' or 'year' or even 'our' as two syllables.

Well, I can see how 'year' and 'our' could be pronounced in just one syllable...but 'hour', not so much, and 'power' not at all. 'Power' in one syllable? Not even sure I can imagine what that would sound like. "Pahr"? You would have to pretty much ignore the 'w' all together.

[William]

Well, I can see how 'year' and 'our' could be pronounced in just one syllable...but 'hour', not so much, and 'power' not at all. 'Power' in one syllable? Not even sure I can imagine what that would sound like. "Pahr"? You would have to pretty much ignore the 'w' all together.

Listen to one of the Queen's speeches - you will hear the words 'hour' and 'power' pronounced as one syllable - it's not difficult. And actually you are pretty close with the 'pahr' sound. It's one of the reasons American speech sounds a bit weird to the English - specially those who use RP (received pronunciation). That and the strong sounding of the letter 'R' (I think that comes from the Irish). Like I said, isn't this fun!

[Standing Wolf]

Listen to one of the Queen's speeches - you will hear the words 'hour' and 'power' pronounced as one syllable - it's not difficult. And actually you are pretty close with the 'pahr' sound. It's one of the reasons American speech sounds a bit weird to the English - specially those who use RP (received pronunciation). That and the strong sounding of the letter 'R' (I think that comes from the Irish). Like I said, isn't this fun!

I suspect that much of the "British English" we hear is somewhat cleaned up so that Americans can follow it better. I didn't think I was going to have any problems with understanding when I got orders to a Brit Air Force base in Wales in the late '80s, but in fact I found myself having to ask folks to repeat themselves quite often - sometimes to a degree that I'm sure was embarrassing for both of us. Between the accent, the disparities in pronunciation, the cadence of speech and the slang, there were times when a simple statement or question could be repeated to me several times and I didn't have a clue what was being said.

I could be off on this, but it seems to me that the "lower" the class or educational level of the speaker, the more difficulty I had with interpreting what they were saying. Then, of course, there are some pretty impenetrable regional accents. One of the officers of the Senior Sergeants' Mess was from Scotland, and I only ever understood about every eighth word he said.

[William]

I suspect that much of the "British English" we hear is somewhat cleaned up so that Americans can follow it better. I didn't think I was going to have any problems with understanding when I got orders to a Brit Air Force base in Wales in the late '80s, but in fact I found myself having to ask folks to repeat themselves quite often - sometimes to a degree that I'm sure was embarrassing for both of us. Between the accent, the disparities in pronunciation, the cadence of speech and the slang, there were times when a simple statement or question could be repeated to me several times and I didn't have a clue what was being said.

I could be off on this, but it seems to me that the "lower" the class or educational level of the speaker, the more difficulty I had with interpreting what they were saying. Then, of course, there are some pretty impenetrable regional accents. One of the officers of the Senior Sergeants' Mess was from Scotland, and I only ever understood about every eighth word he said.

I've only been to Wales three or four times if I remember rightly, but I know the Welsh have a strong accent and their own language, which is nothing like English. So I guess you got the rough end of the stick. And BTW, there is no 'British Air Force' so it was a Royal Air Force base. And you are right - the British TV shows you get are not 'cleaned up', but those with strong regional accents are not exported to the USA. There's a reason for that - I'm a 'born and bred' Brit who learnt my language there, and there are parts of the country where I have trouble understanding people. Like the Geordies are just impossible - have you ever spoken to someone with a broad Tyneside accent?

Well, it's not snobbery, but you are correct in thinking the people with lower educational levels are more difficult to understand for a foreigner. The English my family speaks is called Received Pronunciation, and it is the standard used in the great South-Eastern universities, such as Oxford and Cambridge. It is sometimes called BBC English cos people think it was developed for clear broadcasting, but it began before broadcasting was possible, and I understand it was developed for educational purposes throughout what was once a huge empire. It meant an Indian, a Malay, an African, a Canadian, or an Australian, could understand what his teacher was saying without having to learn a regional British accent.

But it's the same all over the world - like some Americans speak with a wonderful, soft accent, and others speak through their noses. We had an American kid at my school in Britain, and we had this long, really confusing conversation where I truly thought he was talking about his pet ant, until he got irritated and pointed out he was talking about his mother's sister.

[Standing Wolf]

I've only been to Wales three or four times if I remember rightly, but I know the Welsh have a strong accent and their own language, which is nothing like English. So I guess you got the rough end of the stick.

Actually, I had the most interaction (and comprehension problems) with the Air Force guys, who were mostly English - not the locals.

And BTW, there is no 'British Air Force' so it was a Royal Air Force base. And you are right - the British TV shows you get are not 'cleaned up', but those with strong regional accents are not exported to the USA. There's a reason for that - I'm a 'born and bred' Brit who learnt my language there, and there are parts of the country where I have trouble understanding people. Like the Geordies are just impossible - have you ever spoken to someone with a broad Tyneside accent?

I'm not familiar enough with the various regions over there, let alone the accents, to know whether I have or not, to be honest. I used to watch a police drama on BBC America that had obviously NOT been made with an international audience in mind. (I can't recall the name, but I remember it had the same name as an American police show, but they were not related in any way.) I used to have to run it back every couple of minutes and replay bits of conversation again and again, trying to make out what they were saying, and sometimes never did figure it out. One of my all-time favorite programs was Sons of Anarchy, in which Scottish actor Tommy Flannigan was a regular cast member, and I rarely had any idea what he was saying. Another rather impenetrable accent was that of an Irish character named Jimmy in the third season, played by Titus Welliver - who is, in fact, from Connecticut.

Well, it's not snobbery, but you are correct in thinking the people with lower educational levels are more difficult to understand for a foreigner. The English my family speaks is called Received Pronunciation, and it is the standard used in the great South-Eastern universities, such as Oxford and Cambridge. It is sometimes called BBC English cos people think it was developed for clear broadcasting, but it began before broadcasting was possible, and I understand it was developed for educational purposes throughout what was once a huge empire. It meant an Indian, a Malay, an African, a Canadian, or an Australian, could understand what his teacher was saying without having to learn a regional British accent.

In one of my part-time jobs, post-Navy, I worked with a youngish guy from England, and he spoke with what I can only imagine is the kind of accent you're referring to. When you hear a British university professor being interviewed - that's how he spoke. He told me that he grew up in a community a bit north of London. We were working as home alarm system monitors, and whenever one of the Americans would get a testy or disgruntled customer whom we couldn't mollify, we'd turn them over to John, and it worked every time. There's something about that accent that calms Americans down and makes them want to be civilized, too.

But it's the same all over the world - like some Americans speak with a wonderful, soft accent, and others speak through their noses. We had an American kid at my school in Britain, and we had this long, really confusing conversation where I truly thought he was talking about his pet ant, until he got irritated and pointed out he was talking about his mother's sister.

I know what you mean; if you pronounce the "au" in that word as that combination of letters is normally pronounced, people think you're putting on airs. Except, I've noticed, in the Black community; for some reason, a Black person will invariably pronounce that word as it is spelled, not like "ant". No idea why that is.

[Cletus]

Is there such a thing as a dishonorable discharge in the US military?
If so, it could or will be on her record when she applies for a civilian job. I don't give much for her chances or her future either.

A dishonorable discharge is only issued as part of a conviction for a FELONY.