Why We’ll Never End Abortion Until We Shrink Government

[Mister D]

The two can go hand in hand. People will not stop having sex, but they can be more responsible and perhaps one day there will be a reliable method of something more like tubal ligation that is completely reversible, so that women can absolutely choose when they want to start giving birth without taking chemicals/hormones to prevent pregnancy.

No one is trying to stop people from having sex and no thinks sex is icky. You again appeal to a caricature of the 1950s.

[Mister D]

Morality, meaning, and happiness without the crutch of religion

lol

[Mister D]

For those of you that know me well on here and know my history on this topic I just thought i'd let you guys know that I no longer consider myself to be an advocate for abortion unless it's absolutely in order to save the life of the mother. After experiencing my brother and sister-in-law recently go through a miscarriage on the first day of Hanukkah, so Christmas Day for those of you that didn't know when that started, I came to realize that it's not just a clump of cells to them and it's no longer a clump of cells to me either. The pain they experienced going through that process over the last couple of weeks after being so excited about the pregnancy only to have it just end like that shows, to me at least, the selfishness involved with many peoples decisions to have an abortion. My brother and his wife would give anything to have that pregnancy back while others would give anything, including the life of their unborn baby, to not be pregnant. When my other brother had his first kid I took it all for granted, but now I honestly will never look at a pregnancy the same way again, and I know for me whenever I start a family, whenever that may be, i'll see that baby as my living human baby from day 1 of me learning that i'm pregnant. That's that.

Stories such as yours are legion. Thanks for sharing.

[Chris]

According to Lewis Wolpert, one of the foremost embryologists in the world:
“What I’m concerned with is how you develop. I know that you all think about it perpetually that you come from one single cell of a fertilized egg. I don’t want to get involved in religion but that is not a human being. I’ve spoken to these eggs many times and they make it quite clear … they are not a human being. ”

Like the parasitic twin which is biologically human, but has no consciousness and is generally removed with the same consideration as any other inappropriate growth, the zygote has nothing but DNA to offer as a claim to humanity. It has no consciousness, it cannot think or know anything or survive without life support. Any minor change in its life support situation i.e. the mother's physical and/or even mental condition can create an inhospitable environment and it can be ejected.

It is a highly ephemeral plan for the development of an adult human being. It is to a born human being what just framework is to a finished building. People seem to attach more importance to the idea of these proto-humans than they do to the thousands and millions of living and breathing children who are wanting for the necessities of life. They imbue these zygotes with a right to life that not even mother nature grants them and they believe that the living breathing woman who must incubate this potential person, in fact, has a lesser right to self-determination, given that any pregnancy can cause physical and chemical distress in the mother and even death. They have all of the concern and consideration for the mother as one might have of a brood mare.

I know that you all think about it perpetually that you come from one single cell of a fertilized egg.

Who thinks that? Besides Lewis Wolpert.

My argument here is life, a life starts at conception, and that life is human.

Like the parasitic twin which is biologically human....

Again, you argue from ambiguity. Conjoined twins are two lives, vanishing twins are a single life because the other life died. We already went over this.

It is a highly ephemeral plan for the development of an adult human being....

Not sure what any of that means relative to biological, genetic reality.

[Chris]

For those of you that know me well on here and know my history on this topic I just thought i'd let you guys know that I no longer consider myself to be an advocate for abortion unless it's absolutely in order to save the life of the mother. After experiencing my brother and sister-in-law recently go through a miscarriage on the first day of Hanukkah, so Christmas Day for those of you that didn't know when that started, I came to realize that it's not just a clump of cells to them and it's no longer a clump of cells to me either. The pain they experienced going through that process over the last couple of weeks after being so excited about the pregnancy only to have it just end like that shows, to me at least, the selfishness involved with many peoples decisions to have an abortion. My brother and his wife would give anything to have that pregnancy back while others would give anything, including the life of their unborn baby, to not be pregnant. When my other brother had his first kid I took it all for granted, but now I honestly will never look at a pregnancy the same way again, and I know for me whenever I start a family, whenever that may be, i'll see that baby as my living human baby from day 1 of me learning that i'm pregnant. That's that.

That story delves right into the meaning of life and our lives.

/thread

[kilgram]

Who thinks that? Besides Lewis Wolpert.

My argument here is life, a life starts at conception, and that life is human.




Again, you argue from ambiguity. Conjoined twins are two lives, vanishing twins are a single life because the other life died. We already went over this.



Not sure what any of that means relative to biological, genetic reality.

Only Christians think that life starts at conception. Most doctors and scientists don't consider human beings until the development of some conscience. And a bunch of cells are not human or chicken or whatever.

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[Chris]

Only Christians think that life starts at conception. Most doctors and scientists don't consider human beings until the development of some conscience. And a bunch of cells are not human or chicken or whatever.

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That is simply not true. You once again confuse human being with person. Medically, biologically, genetically, life begins at conception. Persons begin, well, at whatever arbitrary point eases your conscience.

[kilgram]

That is simply not true. You once again confuse human being with person. Medically, biologically, genetically, life begins at conception. Persons begin, well, at whatever arbitrary point eases your conscience.

No. Human life does not start at conception. No doctor will tell this. Only people with religious believes think that.

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