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Thread: Three Reasons Not to Like Abraham Lincoln

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I don't know any abolitionists who were willing to let slavery persist in the south as long as the union remained in tact. Anyway, Lincoln's ostensible abolitionist tendencies only manifested themselves at the most strategically convenient moments during the war and were clearly meant as political calculations and not applications of a deeply held principle.
    Read some of his writings. He talks about his disgust of slavery and desires for emancipation for decades prior to his presidency. In addition, the fact that they manifested themselves at "convenient moments" only serves to prove his political prowess and ability to navigate those politics during the most divided time in our nation's history.

    Regardless, his actions stand on their own.

    And, yes, it's true that Liberia was founded before Lincoln, but that does not change the fact that Lincoln subscribed to deporting blacks.
    He subscribed to the idea that African Americans would have a better life in Africa than in the United States under the circumstances of the day. He never subscribed to mass deportations...
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    Yes. This is a textbook case where the end justifies the means, in my opinion of course. Your mileage may vary.

    I should get upset at someone who may use the word "$#@!" or call me inferior based upon my skin color, but who was the sole entity at the time that granted my ancestors freedom....or get upset at someone who calls me a "$#@!" in 2017 and does nothing but denigrate black folks every chance they get and would advocate for more oppression against blacks if they could get their way?....

    If those are my options, I will choose Lincoln every time and twice on Sunday.
    There is also the question of how well those newly liberated slaves took to their freedom. Many of them died in wretched poverty and sickness; many others simply returned to their old plantations in order to work as indentured servants, which was essentially slavery in everything but name; simply put, the radical and ad hoc nature of Lincolnian abolition had the effect of pulling the rug out from under millions of slaves who had no real conception of liberty and no socioeconomic framework ready to facilitate their transition from decades of bondage to a life of self-reliance and independence.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    Read some of his writings. He talks about his disgust of slavery and desires for emancipation for decades prior to his presidency.
    I'll concede that he was an abolitionist, but it's pretty clear that his conception of the "union" took precedence.

    In addition, the fact that they manifested themselves at "convenient moments" only serves to prove his political prowess and ability to navigate those politics during the most divided time in our nation's history.
    Or it proves that he was a good propagandist.

    He subscribed to the idea that African Americans would have a better life in Africa than in the United States under the circumstances of the day. He never subscribed to mass deportations...
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That's a bit of a stretch. And while I certainly see the first iterations of a national bank as problematic, they were not even remotely comparable to the central banking system we live under today. And as the author of this article makes clear, it was Lincoln who started the practice of emitting paper FIAT money in order to finance the war. So even the federal reserve system can be traced back to Lincoln's centralizing tendencies.
    And then continue to be traced back to the creation of our first bank... Blame guys like Robert Morris given they are responsible for the centralization of our banking system.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'll concede that he was an abolitionist, but it's pretty clear that his conception of the "union" took precedence.
    As it should with any President.



    Or it proves that he was a good propagandist.
    Given his career and his accomplishments I defer to the previous.
    From the article:

    Mr Lincoln also favoured the idea. But he was believed to have denounced it after signing the Emancipation Proclamation, which freed of most of America’s four million slaves, in January 1863.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pickle View Post
    And then continue to be traced back to the creation of our first bank... Blame guys like Robert Morris given they are responsible for the centralization of our banking system.
    The first and second national banks were radically different from the federal reserve system though. The first and second national banks did not emit their own currencies, let alone centrally plan a government monopoly on money. They merely acted as a repository and a clearing house for the US government. The first true instance of central banking came about during the Lincoln administration when he sanctioned the first issue of FIAT paper money in US history. Lincoln's monetary policies were the real precursor to central banking in America.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The first and second national banks were radically different from the federal reserve system though. The first and second national banks did not emit their own currencies, let alone centrally plan a government monopoly on money. They merely acted as a repository and a clearing house for the US government. The first true instance of central banking came about during the Lincoln administration when he sanctioned the first issue of FIAT paper money in US history. Lincoln's monetary policies were the real precursor to central banking in America.
    Others were strongly in favor of a central bank. Robert Morris, as Superintendent of Finance, helped to open the Bank of North America in 1782, and has been accordingly called by Thomas Goddard "the father of the system of credit and paper circulation in the United States."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._United_States

    It all started there.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It's true. Lincoln strongly believed that blacks were inferior to whites and they could not coexist on equal terms under a unitary political system. He further believed that blacks should be deported to places like Belize and Guyana.
    Regardless of how we may feel about his politics Lincoln was (obviously) correct in that regard. Deporting former slaves seems cruel to us but in the long term it was the best thing to do for the country.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    @Etherael

    I have Lincoln's Critics by Frank L. Klement sitting on one of my book shelves. I intend to read that next.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    1. Was secession itself motivated by slavery? Yes, unequivocally, see Declarations of the Causes of Secession
    2. Was the Confederacy willing to settle up differences with the Union peacefully? Yes, they sent a peace commission to address outstanding differences.
    3. Was the Union willing to pass an amendment to guarantee slavery for the slavery to stave off secession? Yes, they were.
    4. Was guaranteeing slavery sufficient to mollify Confederate concerns? No, even with the guarantee of slavery, the confederate states still wanted to leave the Union

    Thus, while slavery unequivocally motivated secession, slavery was not the cause of the subsequent WAR.

    The Union didn't fight to liberate slaves, their motivation was 'to preserve the Union'

    Pre-war machinations during the secession crisis undermine the Union's claim to the moral high ground in the subsequent conflict.

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    Private Pickle (01-26-2017)

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