Feminist Movement

[Chris]

A couple stories on feminism.

Mary Tyler Moore Rejected The Feminism Of Gloria Steinem And Betty Friedan

...One might expect the result of all these difficulties would have been for her to reject the traditions of American family life. But that was not the case. When leaders of the feminist movement asked Mary to rally for their cause, she declined. And she wanted that rejection on the record during my interview.

“I want to mention my Gloria Steinem experience. She thought that I was 100% on Betty Friedan’s train. And I really wasn’t. I believed that women—and I still do—have a very major role to play as mothers. It’s very necessary for mothers to be involved with their children. And that’s not what Gloria Steinem was saying. Gloria was saying oh, you can have everything, and you owe it to yourself to have a career. And I didn’t really believe in that, so that was a little difficult for me. Well, I just had to say no.”

Despite her rejection of Gloria Steinem’s cause, Mary wasn’t against expanding opportunities for women. In fact, she probably did more to encourage young women to consider nontraditional jobs choices than anyone of the era. Her TV character was the first independent “career woman” on television. Every Saturday night, she presented a positive view of what young women could achieve. Her character, Mary Richards, was smart, ambitious, and good at her job. At the same time, she was caring toward her friends and never harsh with anyone.

...And the one message she wanted to make sure we didn’t miss: careers are great, but relationships—especially motherhood— trump everything.

How Abortion Activists Hijacked The Women’s Movement

...As an investigative reporter and author of the book “Subverted: How I Helped the Sexual Revolution Hijack the Women’s Movement,” I spent more than four years seeking answers to these questions. A former Cosmopolitan writer who long defended abortion as a woman’s “right,” I am now so fervently anti-abortion that I was a keynote speaker at last year’s March for Life.

Why did I switch sides? For two reasons. First, I had an abortion and as a result suffered from nameless anxiety alternating with depression for decades. Second, I learned how the abortion “right” was inserted into the feminist movement, and I didn’t like what I saw.

While working at Cosmopolitan magazine in 1971, I witnessed what seemed to me then to be a small, insignificant fact but which in hindsight has assumed monumental importance. In those days, the feminist movement and the sexual revolution were two distinctly separate cultural phenomena.

Cosmopolitan editor-in-chief Helen Gurley Brown would have loved for her sex-revolution magazine to be part of the feminist movement, but Betty Friedan, who had launched the modern feminist movement with her 1963 book “The Feminine Mystique,” called Cosmo “quite obscene and quite horrible.”

...

That might peak your interest.

[texan]

I think it's more noble to argue for protecting a life in the womb than being so callous to act like you can terminate a life for any reason at 7 months.

[Chris]

I was fascinated that what started out as a movement for equality strayed off into sexual freedom and then into support for abortion.

[Mister D]

I was fascinated that what started out as a movement for equality strayed off into sexual freedom and then into support for abortion.

I don't think there is a feminist movement but a series of movements describing themselves as feminist. The OP suggests as much. The feminism of Moore is quite different from that of Jewish radicals like Steinem and Friedan.

Anyway, if we define feminism as "equal rights for women" I can honestly say I don't know anyone who is not a feminist.

[Chris]

I don't think there is a feminist movement but a series of movements describing themselves as feminist. The OP suggests as much. The feminism of Moore is quite different from that of Jewish radicals like Steinem and Friedan.

Anyway, if we define feminism as "equal rights for women" I can honestly say I don't know anyone who is not a feminist.

Equality without losing sight of the importance of motherhood. I think that was Mary Tyker Moore's position.

[Mister D]

Equality without losing sight of the importance of motherhood. I think that was Mary Tyker Moore's position.

Right. The radicals appear to reject all gender norms as social constructs that have no basis in biology.

[Adelaide]

I don't think there is a feminist movement but a series of movements describing themselves as feminist. The OP suggests as much. The feminism of Moore is quite different from that of Jewish radicals like Steinem and Friedan.

Anyway, if we define feminism as "equal rights for women" I can honestly say I don't know anyone who is not a feminist.

A common saying is that women's rights are human rights. Personally, aside from the equality aspect, I feel very passionately about domestic violence and rape as well as "borderless feminism". The latter is basically the idea that women should have equal rights and be free from violence regardless of where they live and ignores cultural relativism to a certain degree. Aside from those specific issues, I just care about equality and I try not to get caught up in common quagmires that are based on out of date information or incorrectly perceived information... like the "income gap".

I think women who are pro-life, staunchly, are also feminists but they have a different POV than most of the vocal feminists. It seems like hypocrisy to tell women they can't be feminists if they're also pro-life.

[Chris]

A common saying is that women's rights are human rights. Personally, aside from the equality aspect, I feel very passionately about domestic violence and rape as well as "borderless feminism". The latter is basically the idea that women should have equal rights and be free from violence regardless of where they live and ignores cultural relativism to a certain degree. Aside from those specific issues, I just care about equality and I try not to get caught up in common quagmires that are based on out of date information or incorrectly perceived information... like the "income gap".

I think women who are pro-life, staunchly, are also feminists but they have a different POV than most of the vocal feminists. It seems like hypocrisy to tell women they can't be feminists if they're also pro-life.

I'd agree, from what I understand, the movement is more than equality, include freedom from violence, things like not getting fired but given time off to have a baby.

Just don't understand how it got so narrowed to exclude pro-life feminists.

[Adelaide]

I'd agree, from what I understand, the movement is more than equality, include freedom from violence, things like not getting fired but given time off to have a baby.

Just don't understand how it got so narrowed to exclude pro-life feminists.

The maternity leave issue is pretty ridiculous - women should get paid leave for 9 to 12 months. For me, I grew up in a country that had paid leave so it seems bizarre that it isn't the same here. It seems very backwards; here is an article looking at the two countries:

Maternity and parental benefits provided for the birth or adoption of a baby varies wildly from country to country. The United States is part of a very exclusive group – but not for the reasons you might suspect. It shares the spotlight with Papua New Guinea, Swaziland, Liberia and Lesotho as one of the only countries in the world that doesn’t mandate some type of paid maternity leave for new mothers according to a study done by McGill University’s Institute for Health and Social Policy. In fact, when compared to its northern neighbour, the U.S. maternity leave policy is embarrassingly sparse.

Here are some of the big differences between the two countries.

Canada

The Canadian government mandates both a leave and a benefits component, the latter being administered by provincial employment insurance plans. Depending on the length of employment history and the hours worked, new mothers can take between 17 and 52 weeks of leave from their jobs. Their employers are required to accept the employees back into their jobs, or the equivalent, at the end of the mandated leave at the same rate of pay with the same employment benefits.

On top of mandating maternity leave, the government offers paid leave for one or both parents through Canada’s employment insurance plan. A pregnant employee or new mother can take a paid maternity leave of up to 15 weeks. Either the mother or father can take 35 weeks of parental leave after the baby is born or adopted. The parents can share the leave however they choose. If eligible for the program, the benefits equal 55 per cent of the parent’s average weekly insurable wage, up to a maximum of $485 per week. For low-income families, the rate of benefits can increase to up to 80 per cent, with the same maximum of $485 per week. Employment insurance benefits are taxable in the same way as wages.

Maternity leave basics: Canada vs. the United States - Globe and Mail


This is less about equality, although maternity/paternity leave should also be available for the father when that's what a family decides. This is more about a benefit that most developed countries have in place that the United States is way, way behind on. Any money coming in to the parent on leave is important, especially in low-income families or families who live in areas with a high cost of living.


It would also possibly have implications for the abortion rate, since having paid leave makes parenthood more affordable when it's already so financially straining. It's also important for bonding purposes for the mother, specifically, to be with the baby most of the time which is based on a lot of complicated science. And breastfeeding? Ever try that in a toilet stall at work? There are so many more reasons, probably better reasons that I am forgetting (just woke up) which makes me really wondering about the United States. Surely States could implement plans at the state level to help mothers (and fathers) who wish to take leave.

[rcfieldz]

I was fascinated that what started out as a movement for equality strayed off into sexual freedom and then into support for abortion.

There is a lot to be said for a traditional family over a "so-called modern" or broken family. There are many facts that tell a story. And I have seen mental illness get inherited and it's scary.