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Thread: 2nd tPF Town Hall 02/04-05/2017

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by resister View Post
    Perhaps, after 3 exiles, permanent ban?
    Pretty much so, yes. If warnings and TBs don't work, we start infracting, after a few of those, 24 hour temp ban, then 3 day temp ban, then 7 day temp ban, then perma ban. If needed we can escalate that. But the idea is to give ample warning so member can change.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    The moderation policies of this forum are really the worst I have seen in a very long time. That is not the fault of the moderators (unless they are the ones writing them), but it affects discourse and not in a positive way.

    Example... Apparently it is okay for a moderator to come along AFTER a mod has taken action and decide that wasn't sufficient and stack some other punishment on top of the first action. That is just ridiculous. It is no different from a judge reviewing a sentence issued by another judge and deciding it wasn't harsh enough and tacking additional time on top of it.

    Actions taken by moderators should be done in a timely manner. Showing up hours after a post is put up and deciding to take action over it is counterproductive. By then, discussion has moved on and people aren't even thinking about it anymore. That is like beating a dog or a child for something he did hours before. The world has moved on. The Mods need to keep up.

    Moderators here tend to focus on the things that don't matter and ignore the things that do. They will issue an infraction or warning to a poster for insulting someone, but they seldom if ever give any thought to what precipitated the insult. Was it a response to something someone else said? Was it said to strictly to demean another poster? Was it said in jest? Those can all be very different things. Instead of examining context, the mods just look at the words. That is not only poor moderation, it indicates an intellectual deficiency on the part of the person doing so.

    When moderators are asked why a particular action was taken, they need to respond. The poster doesn't need and in most cases doesn't want a response from a different mod from the one who took the action. He wants and should get a response from the one who issued the warning or the infraction or the ban or whatever.

    This is a political discussion board. As long as people have engaged in political debate, rhetoric has often become heated. It is the nature of the beast. People don't come here for tea and crumpets. They come here to express themselves on the political and social issues of the day. In the vast majority of cases, if left alone, heated rhetoric cools off in short order and discussions continue. There is an old saying (a variant on the famous Thoreau quote) that goes "The government is best which governs least, because its people discipline themselves". There is much truth to that. We are mostly adults here. Moderators should stay out of the way and let discussions flow as they will, unless they get totally off track or degenerate to the point where productive discussion is no longer happening. One poster calling another a dumb ass (or something equivalent) is not just cause for a mod to jump in and issue a warning. If it happens repeatedly and the discussion becomes a personal battle with the insults outweighing the productive, on topic posts, that is a different matter. Mods need to learn that.

    There also needs a be a subforum or some public, not hidden, area on the forum where moderation can be discussed. Restrict it to a single thread or create its own forum, but it needs to exist. Rule 9 is stupid. Mods screw up like anyone else. The difference when they do it, it has an impact on the forum. People need to be able to express differences of opinion about moderation decisions and it needs to be done where all can participate, not in some secret dungeon where no one has any idea what is being said or if the criticisms and suggestions are being considered at all.


    Apparently it is okay for a moderator to come along AFTER a mod has taken action and decide that wasn't sufficient and stack some other punishment on top of the first action.
    Yes. We work as team and team will review actions taken and may decide more action is needed. The previous action is usually retracted when you're infracted. And vice versa we sometimes decide no action was required and retract it.


    Actions taken by moderators should be done in a timely manner.
    We try to act as soon as possible. But we're members and, believe it or not, we have real lives outside the forum. Today I'm redoing a bathroom floor.


    Moderators here tend to focus on the things that don't matter and ignore the things that do.
    Everyone sees things differently, that's why we act as a team, if not in initial action, in review. This lends some objectivity. In the end it's a judgment call.


    When moderators are asked why a particular action was taken, they need to respond.
    We should do a better job of that with actions that you all report. We try, but...will try harder. As far as i know if you PM a mod you will get a response. If nt, we need to work on that then too.

    Note that usually two or mods decide an action so any mod responding should be OK.


    This is a political discussion board....
    Well, this is a tough one. Some people come for serious discussion without personal animosity, some like more heated discussion, and, of course, some like to troll. We try to allow for the first two. The ideas Peter and Captain suggest might help to separate the two.


    There also needs a be a subforum or some public, not hidden, area on the forum where moderation can be discussed....
    We have an arbitration area for that but rarely see the need to use it. You are free to report actions, to PM any mod or even ADMIN with grievances and complaints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    The moderation policies of this forum are really the worst I have seen in a very long time. That is not the fault of the moderators (unless they are the ones writing them), but it affects discourse and not in a positive way.

    Example... Apparently it is okay for a moderator to come along AFTER a mod has taken action and decide that wasn't sufficient and stack some other punishment on top of the first action. That is just ridiculous. It is no different from a judge reviewing a sentence issued by another judge and deciding it wasn't harsh enough and tacking additional time on top of it.

    Actions taken by moderators should be done in a timely manner. Showing up hours after a post is put up and deciding to take action over it is counterproductive. By then, discussion has moved on and people aren't even thinking about it anymore. That is like beating a dog or a child for something he did hours before. The world has moved on. The Mods need to keep up.

    Moderators here tend to focus on the things that don't matter and ignore the things that do. They will issue an infraction or warning to a poster for insulting someone, but they seldom if ever give any thought to what precipitated the insult. Was it a response to something someone else said? Was it said to strictly to demean another poster? Was it said in jest? Those can all be very different things. Instead of examining context, the mods just look at the words. That is not only poor moderation, it indicates an intellectual deficiency on the part of the person doing so.

    When moderators are asked why a particular action was taken, they need to respond. The poster doesn't need and in most cases doesn't want a response from a different mod from the one who took the action. He wants and should get a response from the one who issued the warning or the infraction or the ban or whatever.

    This is a political discussion board. As long as people have engaged in political debate, rhetoric has often become heated. It is the nature of the beast. People don't come here for tea and crumpets. They come here to express themselves on the political and social issues of the day. In the vast majority of cases, if left alone, heated rhetoric cools off in short order and discussions continue. There is an old saying (a variant on the famous Thoreau quote) that goes "The government is best which governs least, because its people discipline themselves". There is much truth to that. We are mostly adults here. Moderators should stay out of the way and let discussions flow as they will, unless they get totally off track or degenerate to the point where productive discussion is no longer happening. One poster calling another a dumb ass (or something equivalent) is not just cause for a mod to jump in and issue a warning. If it happens repeatedly and the discussion becomes a personal battle with the insults outweighing the productive, on topic posts, that is a different matter. Mods need to learn that.

    There also needs a be a subforum or some public, not hidden, area on the forum where moderation can be discussed. Restrict it to a single thread or create its own forum, but it needs to exist. Rule 9 is stupid. Mods screw up like anyone else. The difference when they do it, it has an impact on the forum. People need to be able to express differences of opinion about moderation decisions and it needs to be done where all can participate, not in some secret dungeon where no one has any idea what is being said or if the criticisms and suggestions are being considered at all.
    @Cletus - in fairness to the mods, they can't be everywhere at all times, they're going to miss stuff, and in the spirit of the current "lightly modded" forum, I think (they can correct me if I'm speaking out of context) they generally don't moderate unless something is reported or just way off base.

    That's why it's emphasized to report posts.
    my junk is ugly

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    True, we work mainly off reports and only occasionally, as needed, act on our own, and even then, it's by report and discussed and reviewed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Create a latest happenings, politics, and world affairs on the serious side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Serious side the main forum with all the relavant sub forums, create a "play pen" area with a handful of sub forums for the monkeys.

    These design changes fall to the purview of VIPs. They can be discussed here, but will have to be taken to VIPs. If, as in the case of Cap, the idea comes from a non-VIP, I think you should be allowed to join the VIPs for discussion on it.

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    Put me in control of your forum for 2 weeks. I'll fix it completely.

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    Yea, right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    The moderation policies of this forum are really the worst I have seen in a very long time. That is not the fault of the moderators (unless they are the ones writing them), but it affects discourse and not in a positive way.

    Example... Apparently it is okay for a moderator to come along AFTER a mod has taken action and decide that wasn't sufficient and stack some other punishment on top of the first action. That is just ridiculous. It is no different from a judge reviewing a sentence issued by another judge and deciding it wasn't harsh enough and tacking additional time on top of it.

    Actions taken by moderators should be done in a timely manner. Showing up hours after a post is put up and deciding to take action over it is counterproductive. By then, discussion has moved on and people aren't even thinking about it anymore. That is like beating a dog or a child for something he did hours before. The world has moved on. The Mods need to keep up.

    Moderators here tend to focus on the things that don't matter and ignore the things that do. They will issue an infraction or warning to a poster for insulting someone, but they seldom if ever give any thought to what precipitated the insult. Was it a response to something someone else said? Was it said to strictly to demean another poster? Was it said in jest? Those can all be very different things. Instead of examining context, the mods just look at the words. That is not only poor moderation, it indicates an intellectual deficiency on the part of the person doing so.

    When moderators are asked why a particular action was taken, they need to respond. The poster doesn't need and in most cases doesn't want a response from a different mod from the one who took the action. He wants and should get a response from the one who issued the warning or the infraction or the ban or whatever.

    This is a political discussion board. As long as people have engaged in political debate, rhetoric has often become heated. It is the nature of the beast. People don't come here for tea and crumpets. They come here to express themselves on the political and social issues of the day. In the vast majority of cases, if left alone, heated rhetoric cools off in short order and discussions continue. There is an old saying (a variant on the famous Thoreau quote) that goes "The government is best which governs least, because its people discipline themselves". There is much truth to that. We are mostly adults here. Moderators should stay out of the way and let discussions flow as they will, unless they get totally off track or degenerate to the point where productive discussion is no longer happening. One poster calling another a dumb ass (or something equivalent) is not just cause for a mod to jump in and issue a warning. If it happens repeatedly and the discussion becomes a personal battle with the insults outweighing the productive, on topic posts, that is a different matter. Mods need to learn that.

    There also needs a be a subforum or some public, not hidden, area on the forum where moderation can be discussed. Restrict it to a single thread or create its own forum, but it needs to exist. Rule 9 is stupid. Mods screw up like anyone else. The difference when they do it, it has an impact on the forum. People need to be able to express differences of opinion about moderation decisions and it needs to be done where all can participate, not in some secret dungeon where no one has any idea what is being said or if the criticisms and suggestions are being considered at all.
    Would you like to pay the moderators salaries?
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

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    Quote Originally Posted by Docthehun View Post
    Yea, right.
    Yeah. Right. But you may be projecting the type of fix you think I'd implement.

    For that type of projection, I'd only need 30 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    @Cletus - in fairness to the mods, they can't be everywhere at all times, they're going to miss stuff, and in the spirit of the current "lightly modded" forum, I think (they can correct me if I'm speaking out of context) they generally don't moderate unless something is reported or just way off base.

    That's why it's emphasized to report posts.
    That is the main issue, most piss and moan, but rarely report.

    I report both sides of the aisle because both are loathsome offenders.

    And then magically, as if I had powers of something, a moderator shows up and moderates.

    As for frivolous reporting? Mods have a way to deal with that. Not really a problem.

    Fear profits a man nothing.
    Last edited by Cthulhu; 02-04-2017 at 05:04 PM.
    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

    Ephesians 6:12

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