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Thread: From Marxism to Fascism

  1. #11
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    The crux of Marxist theory is that it represents a scientific analysis of history and social relations. The question that Marxists must ask themselves today is whether the politics of ethno-nationalism, hatred of women, and broader xenophobia sound particularly scientific to them. If not then maybe it's time to recognize that there is nothing particularly scientific about Marxist analysis itself It's just a plea to any of my old friends who may be reading this (I've posted it elsewhere too) to question the merits of authoritarian politics.
    Marxism was never scientific. Not the way we conceive of science today as empirical. It was scientistic. Its claim to science lay in it's use of Hegelian dialectic.

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    I've always been a critic of Marxism. I saw the dangers and find it entirely unsurprising.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

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    I would hasten to add that those inspired by Marx have caused at least as much misery in this world as the fascists who were active for about 25 years.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Peter wrote:
    I think it is a natural progression. Mussolini was supporter of Socialist International but his WWI combat experience taught him that the international flavor did not help with unit cohesion. But nationalism did. And extreme nationalism did even better.
    Ethereal wrote:
    They are only different insofar as Marxism is internationalist and fascism is nationalist. That is really the only significant difference.
    Marxism is theoretically an anti-state perspective, where fascism represents an openly statist outlook. What fascism and Marxism have always had in common was an embrace of Hegelian (or semi-Hegelian) dialectics. Where they have differed is on the matter of what the core contradictions of society inhibiting social advancement are. For Marx, it was class. For Mussolini, it was nationality. For Hitler, it was race. That I think sums up the essential ideological divide. It is significant then in my view to see the one morph into the others, not just on a micro scale, but as an entire philosophy. If there's anything that communicates to me, it's that there is something fundamentally wrong with Hegelian dialectics!

    Then again, this doesn't necessarily account for cases like Slajov Zizek, who subscribes to critical theory, which is basically a Marxian variety of postmodernism instead of traditional dialectics. The overlap I see in his case lies in that postmodernism has itself always been a favorite tool of fascist regimes.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 02-19-2017 at 01:47 PM.

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    Yes, race and class served an identical function and had identically murderous results.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Marxism is theoretically an anti-state perspective, where fascism represents an openly statist outlook.
    I was referring to communism as applied. Not the theory.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Peter wrote:
    I was referring to communism as applied. Not the theory.
    Communism as applied is by no means necessarily statist. Consider all the anarchist varieties and communities, for example!

    But yeah, I now think Marxism has a fundamental problem in this area that is rooted in Hegelianish dialectics. That mentality is what's at the root of Marx's concept of the proletarian dictatorship, Lenin's concept of democratic centralism, and all the other various expressions of authoritarianism in that scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Marxism is theoretically an anti-state perspective, where fascism represents an openly statist outlook. What fascism and Marxism have always had in common was an embrace of Hegelian (or semi-Hegelian) dialectics. Where they have differed is on the matter of what the core contradictions of society inhibiting social advancement are. For Marx, it was class. For Mussolini, it was nationality. For Hitler, it was race. That I think sums up the essential ideological divide. It is significant then in my view to see the one morph into the others, not just on a micro scale, but as an entire philosophy. If there's anything that communicates to me, it's that there is something fundamentally wrong with Hegelian dialectics!

    Then again, this doesn't necessarily account for cases like Slajov Zizek, who subscribes to critical theory, which is basically a Marxian variety of postmodernism instead of traditional dialectics. The overlap I see in his case lies in that postmodernism has itself always been a favorite tool of fascist regimes.

    Marx was always anti-libertarian (European sense). He was an authoritarian who, unlike other anarchist, didn't trust the people to do what he knew better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Communism as applied is by no means necessarily statist. Consider all the anarchist varieties and communities, for example!

    But yeah, I now think Marxism has a fundamental problem in this area that is rooted in Hegelianish dialectics. That mentality is what's at the root of Marx's concept of the proletarian dictatorship, Lenin's concept of democratic centralism, and all the other various expressions of authoritarianism in that scene.
    The Soviet Union and its satellite nations, Cuban, China, etc is what I was talking about.
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    Peter wrote:
    The Soviet Union and its satellite nations, Cuban, China, etc is what I was talking about.
    I get you! I was just trying to trace out the philosophical roots of the problem so we can gather the specific place where the problem begins.

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