Germany rejects Trump's claim it owes NATO and U.S. 'vast sums' for defense......

[Green Arrow]

I mistook defenders, but either way no president does it on his own. Trump surely has people advising him that knows nato.

We have to stop paying everyone elses bills for them.

Foreign aid is a necessary component of diplomacy.

[Cletus]

They are right to reject it. Trump and his defenders have no idea how all of this works. First off, NATO member states are not obligated, and never have been obligated, to pay the U.S. one red cent. Second, the requirement for all NATO member states to spend 2% of GDP on defense was only instituted a couple years ago, all NATO member states have until 2024 to meet that requirement, and Germany is well on track to getting there in more than enough time.

This is what happens when we make a billionaire buffoon with zero political experience president. Obama bumbled plenty on foreign affairs and that was with eleven years of combined state and U.S. senate experience. Apparently we decided to double down on that failure and picked someone with zero experience. Now we'll reap the disasters.

What Trump understands that you don't seem to is that we are currently providing 22% of NATO's actual budget. When we look at the other expenditures we cover for the defense of NATO members, that number goes up to about 72%. That is 72% of 900 billion Dollars, or about 650 billion Dollars. The UK is next with 6.6% or a little under 60 billion Dollars. France, 4.9% (about 44 billion Dollars). Germany pays in about 4.4% (around 40 billion Dollars).

So, the top 4 spenders cover about 88% of the total defense costs for all 28 member countries, with the US paying almost 10 times as much as the next higher contributor.

It is way past time for the other member states to start carrying their load.

[MMC]

Even if we accept your interpretation for the sake of argument, Trump's still wrong. NATO member states have only been required to meet the 2% of GDP spending on defense threshold for a couple years, and all NATO memberstates were given until 2024 to meet it. Germany is well on target to meet their end of it.

They reaffirmed their pledge in 2014. Moreover it still dates back to 1949 with the agreement of burden sharing with defense.

[Green Arrow]

What Trump understands that you don't seem to is that we are currently providing 22% of NATO's actual budget. When we look at the other expenditures we cover for the defense of NATO members, that number goes up to about 72%. That is 72% of 900 billion Dollars, or about 650 billion Dollars. The UK is next with 6.6% or a little under 60 billion Dollars. France, 4.9% (about 44 billion Dollars). Germany pays in about 4.4% (around 40 billion Dollars).

So, the top 4 spenders cover about 88% of the total defense costs for all 28 member countries, with the US paying almost 10 times as much as the next higher contributor.

It is way past time for the other member states to start carrying their load.

So far Germany is not the problem. Trump needs to start treating our allies like allies.

[Green Arrow]

They reaffirmed their pledge in 2014. Moreover it still dates back to 1949 with the agreement of burden sharing with defense.

Article 3 of the treaty says this:

In order more effectively to achieve the objectives of this Treaty, the Parties, separately and jointly, by means of continuous and effective self-help and mutual aid, will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack.

All member states have done that. The 2% of GDP number wasn't agreed to until 2014 as a target to better equalize that part of the treaty. They were all given until 2024 to do that. It's not 2024 yet. Trump is wrong.

[MMC]

Article 3 of the treaty says this:

In order more effectively to achieve the objectives of this Treaty, the Parties, separately and jointly, by means of continuous and effective self-help and mutual aid, will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack.

All member states have done that. The 2% of GDP number wasn't agreed to until 2014 as a target to better equalize that part of the treaty. They were all given until 2024 to do that. It's not 2024 yet. Trump is wrong.

In 2014 they reaffirmed that pledge. So its a lot older.


Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, speaking at a conference in Brussels, said he hoped NATO leaders meeting in Wales on Sept. 4-5 would adopt "a transatlantic declaration that on the one hand will reaffirm the American commitment to European security and ... also reaffirm a European commitment to a fair sharing of costs and responsibilities"......snip~

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nato-chie...58.html?ref=gs

[Cletus]

So far Germany is not the problem. Trump needs to start treating our allies like allies.

How is he not?

We pay 16 times as much as Germany for Europe's defense. Do you think that is an equitable arrangement?

[Green Arrow]

In 2014 they reaffirmed that pledge. So its a lot older.


Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen, speaking at a conference in Brussels, said he hoped NATO leaders meeting in Wales on Sept. 4-5 would adopt "a transatlantic declaration that on the one hand will reaffirm the American commitment to European security and ... also reaffirm a European commitment to a fair sharing of costs and responsibilities"......snip~

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nato-chie...58.html?ref=gs

They reaffirmed the pledge in Article 3 of the treaty, yes. The 2% figure wasn't mandatory until 2014 and even then member states had until 2024 - ten years - to get there.

[Green Arrow]

How is he not?

We pay 16 times as much as Germany for Europe's defense. Do you think that is an equitable arrangement?

Considering we take in 60% more in revenue than Germany on an annual basis? I think they could contribute more but they are on track to do just that already. At this rate they'll exceed the required percentage of defense spending before the 2024 deadline.

[MMC]

They reaffirmed the pledge in Article 3 of the treaty, yes. The 2% figure wasn't mandatory until 2014 and even then member states had until 2024 - ten years - to get there.

Its a pledge they weren't keeping up with.....which is why it was made mandatory in 2014.