Atheists Have Murdered 100,000,000 Humans and Counting

[Chris]

No, Mister. I don't take any faith. Why you try to make to believe that Christianity is so great that we have everything thanks to then when is obviously a lie. Many previous civilizations defended similar things.

Yes, even Hitler had some good side. It does not remove the fact that he was a cancer.

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Tell us about the previous civilizations that preached and practiced individualism and egalitarianism.

[Common Sense]

Tell us about the previous civilizations that preached and practiced individualism and egalitarianism.

Vikings believed in individualism and egalitarianism.

Maybe even more so than Christianity in the sense that women were seen as equals.

[Peter1469]

Vikings did have a strong democracy element in their societies. Iceland is certainly a great place to visit for the history.

[Ethereal]

Vikings believed in individualism and egalitarianism.

Maybe even more so than Christianity in the sense that women were seen as equals.

That's true, but I'm not sure they had a systematized or formalized conceptual framework in which to describe and explain it. The only non-Christian sources I can think of which would probably qualify are the Greeks.

[Chris]

The Vikings: Yale historian looks at the myths vs. the history

The idea that the Vikings introduced “democratic government” to places where they settled is largely a Romantic myth, but they did found the city of Dublin, among others.

It is also untrue that the Vikings were in any way more egalitarian toward women than the rest of the world at the time.

Call me skeptical.

[Mister D]

Vikings believed in individualism and egalitarianism.

Maybe even more so than Christianity in the sense that women were seen as equals.

Chris is skeptical. I'm laughing.

[Mister D]

That's true, but I'm not sure they had a systematized or formalized conceptual framework in which to describe and explain it. The only non-Christian sources I can think of which would probably qualify are the Greeks.

The Greeks wouldn't qualify because in ancient Greek society the individual as we understand him today was a non-person. Self-identity in pre-Christian Europe, as it continues to be in much of the world today, was derived from one's family, city and other social groups. The abstract individual of secularized Christianity is a modern peculiarity. Secondly, (some) ancient Greeks believed in political equality. They were not making a fuss over the fact that some people made more money than others and so on. It was a very limited and thus workable concept of equality.

[Peter1469]

The Vikings: Yale historian looks at the myths vs. the history



Call me skeptical.

They were tribes and democracy was more like the Greek version. One of the places that I visited in Iceland was a site where the "voting" males would meet each year to settle claims and disputes.

[Chris]

What I'm reading is Vikings had king and parliament. The latter consisted of members of each family, usually the head, the male or his widow. So it was still familial and not individualistic. The seeds of democracy.

[Mister D]

I don't. It is not only Christianity that brought enlightenment that is a big lie. Yes, obviously Christianity has good things but those values are not unique to it. Enlightenment drank from many places.


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1. The very fact that you call these ideas "good" and "enlightened" only demonstrates that they are taken for granted and thus not up for debate.

2. 17th and 18th Century Europeans had one, largely Christian, well to drink from. They drank deeply from it. Had they not your own worldview would not exist.

It continues to amaze me how secularists try to relegate 1800 years of Christianity to an intellectual, philosophical and cultural footnote.