User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 53

Thread: Nazi Captain America

  1. #21

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 34,182, Level: 45
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,268
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Hal Jordan's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    58782
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,394
    Points
    34,182
    Level
    45
    Thanks Given
    8,840
    Thanked 6,795x in 4,453 Posts
    Mentioned
    582 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rcfieldz View Post
    It's not his age...it's his I.Q. that is low.
    I'm sorry you have no appreciation for literary discussion. Final warning for all.

    This is a tPF for serious discussion. Discuss the topic or be gone.
    Last edited by Hal Jordan; 04-13-2017 at 11:05 AM.
    "For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'." John Greenleaf Whittier

    "Our minds control our bodies. Our bodies control our enemies. Our enemies control jack shit by the time we're done with them." Stick

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Hal Jordan For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017)

  3. #22

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 34,182, Level: 45
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,268
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Hal Jordan's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    58782
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,394
    Points
    34,182
    Level
    45
    Thanks Given
    8,840
    Thanked 6,795x in 4,453 Posts
    Mentioned
    582 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bethere View Post
    I'm old school on comic continuity. I prefer it done like green lantern did through crisis. In my mind, the cosmic cube is still mired in the muck of the Hudson River where Jack Kirby left it.

    I'm not a fan of lazy writing tools like chartreuse kryptonite or sparky, Clark's super gerbil from Kandor.
    That's fair. Superman comics are the epitome of lazy writing in comics. "Well, we got him in a jam he can't get out of. What now?" "He gets a new power!"
    "For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'." John Greenleaf Whittier

    "Our minds control our bodies. Our bodies control our enemies. Our enemies control jack shit by the time we're done with them." Stick

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Hal Jordan For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017)

  5. #23
    Points: 30,469, Level: 42
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 581
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassVeteran
    decedent's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    390557
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    7,037
    Points
    30,469
    Level
    42
    Thanks Given
    2,238
    Thanked 2,794x in 2,008 Posts
    Mentioned
    123 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    You are how old?
    He's at least 12.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    This is something the comics world has been discussing for a while now, and it seems to be getting ready to come to a head soon. Now, first let me say that technically, Cap is not a Nazi at the moment. However, he has been turned evil and "has been an agent of Hydra from the beginning" (the quotes are important). Hydra is inextricably linked in the minds of many to be a Nazi organization. The current canon origin of Hydra was in ancient Egypt, long before Hitler could have ever been conceived. As Hydra stands now in the comics universe, there are two factions. One is the Red Skull's faction, who is undeniably a Nazi. The other is a more general New World Order group, which Cap is part of.

    Now, let's go back to the quotes from earlier. Was Captain America always a member of Hydra? No. Red Skull obtained a cosmic cube and altered reality to make Cap a Hydra agent now. In doing so, he also altered Cap's memories (and those of others involved) to reflect a history of him being Hydra all along.

    Last week's Captain America comic clarified things a little further, actually. It showed one of those "memories" wherein Cap says Red Skull betrayed Hydra by connecting it with the Third Reich. However, in the minds of most, Hydra is purely a Nazi organization.

    Now that the backstory has been put forth, it's time for some commentary. Yes, the idea of Captain America as a Nazi is unthinkable and goes against everything the character is about. However, let's look at this from a story perspective. Say you're Red Skull, who has been foiled time and again by your worst foe, Captain America. You gain the power to alter reality. Wouldn't it make sense to transform that foe so that he wouldn't be a thorn in your side, but an ally? In fact, he didn't go far enough with the change, as Cap murdered Red Skull in order to fully take over Hydra. Oops. Logically, he should have made Cap a full Nazi, while I still hate the idea.

    Now, will Nazi Cap always be on people's minds from now on? Hard to say, though he will be for a while at least. In the end, will he be remembered forever like alcoholic Tony Stark or eventually forgotten like evil, murderous Tony Stark and Teen Tony Stark? Only time and how it is handled will tell.
    This is the stupidest story line ever. Cap's greatest enemy was Hydra. He was co-created created by Jack Kirby -- a Jew.


    First they make Stark a drunken $#@!, then they make Hal Jordan a bad guy, then they make Supes a tyrant (Injustice). I know these are not all in the same timeline but it's still disturbing. For some reason, making Cap a Nazi irks me the most. He was given the super-soldier serum because he was an incorruptible person.
    Last edited by decedent; 04-13-2017 at 11:49 AM.
    I have a big cook.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to decedent For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017),Hal Jordan (04-13-2017)

  7. #24

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 34,182, Level: 45
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,268
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Hal Jordan's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    58782
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,394
    Points
    34,182
    Level
    45
    Thanks Given
    8,840
    Thanked 6,795x in 4,453 Posts
    Mentioned
    582 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by decedent View Post
    He's at least 12.
    I will say I'm far older than that.




    This is the stupidest story line ever. Cap's greatest enemy was Hydra. He was co-created created by Jack Kirby -- a Jew.


    First they make Start a drunken $#@!, then they make Hal Jordan a bad guy, then they make Supes a tyrant (Injustice). I know these are not all in the same timeline but it's still disturbing. For some reason, making Capa a Nazi irks me the most. He was given the super-soldier serum because he was an incorruptible person.
    My defense of the Cap storyline is that there is logic behind it. Now, that said, it should irk us all more than the others. It goes against everything the character was created for and stands for.

    Regarding Stark becoming an alcoholic, that was really natural progression and led to a powerful story. He always enjoyed his drink, and using the suit drunk was an inevitability. Hal is probably the most troublesome of the examples you cited (yes, he was under the influence of the avatar of fear, but that's not the strongest excuse). As for the Superman example, that's more of an Elseworlds story, and I've found what I've read of Injustice to be a very interesting story. As an Elseworlds story, it hasn't changed the core Superman any more than USSR Superman did.
    "For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'." John Greenleaf Whittier

    "Our minds control our bodies. Our bodies control our enemies. Our enemies control jack shit by the time we're done with them." Stick

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Hal Jordan For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017)

  9. #25
    Points: 74,657, Level: 66
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 793
    Overall activity: 43.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    314977
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    25,631
    Points
    74,657
    Level
    66
    Thanks Given
    5,719
    Thanked 21,094x in 12,287 Posts
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I think one of the funniest things Marvel has done recently involves Nick Fury. Nick Fury used to be a White guy. (David Hasselhoff played him in a movie, for crying out loud...and, surprisingly, actually didn't do too bad a job.) Then along came the Ultimate Universe, and in that universe Nick Fury was a Black guy who looked like Samuel L. Jackson. (At one point in the comic, someone asks Fury who he'd want to play him in a movie and he says, "Samuel L. Jackson, of course".) Years later, that happened. Then, when the Ultimate Universe - I think - somehow got "blended into" the mainstream Marvel comic universe, they adopted the Black version and explained that he was actually Nick Fury Junior - the illegitimate son of the White Nick Fury. Just wow.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Standing Wolf For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017)

  11. #26
    Points: 94,805, Level: 75
    Level completed: 3%, Points required for next Level: 2,545
    Overall activity: 0.2%
    Achievements:
    SocialTagger Second Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Bethere's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    880606
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    19,837
    Points
    94,805
    Level
    75
    Thanks Given
    9,426
    Thanked 5,107x in 4,132 Posts
    Mentioned
    324 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    That's fair. Superman comics are the epitome of lazy writing in comics. "Well, we got him in a jam he can't get out of. What now?" "He gets a new power!"
    One needn't be Brainiac 5 to see the truth in that.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Bethere For This Useful Post:

    Hal Jordan (04-13-2017)

  13. #27

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 34,182, Level: 45
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 1,268
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Hal Jordan's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    58782
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,394
    Points
    34,182
    Level
    45
    Thanks Given
    8,840
    Thanked 6,795x in 4,453 Posts
    Mentioned
    582 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    I think one of the funniest things Marvel has done recently involves Nick Fury. Nick Fury used to be a White guy. (David Hasselhoff played him in a movie, for crying out loud...and, surprisingly, actually didn't do too bad a job.) Then along came the Ultimate Universe, and in that universe Nick Fury was a Black guy who looked like Samuel L. Jackson. (At one point in the comic, someone asks Fury who he'd want to play him in a movie and he says, "Samuel L. Jackson, of course".) Years later, that happened. Then, when the Ultimate Universe - I think - somehow got "blended into" the mainstream Marvel comic universe, they adopted the Black version and explained that he was actually Nick Fury Junior - the illegitimate son of the White Nick Fury. Just wow.
    Actually, Nick Fury Junior showed up in the main Marvel Universe (616) before the end of the Ultimate Universe. Parts of the Ultimate Universe got brought over, but Ultimate Nick Fury ended with it. It was obvious with Junior that they just wanted to match the face to the Cinematic Universe version.
    "For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'." John Greenleaf Whittier

    "Our minds control our bodies. Our bodies control our enemies. Our enemies control jack shit by the time we're done with them." Stick

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Hal Jordan For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017)

  15. #28
    Points: 30,469, Level: 42
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 581
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassVeteran
    decedent's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    390557
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    7,037
    Points
    30,469
    Level
    42
    Thanks Given
    2,238
    Thanked 2,794x in 2,008 Posts
    Mentioned
    123 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    ...and I've found what I've read of Injustice to be a very interesting story. As an Elseworlds story, it hasn't changed the core Superman any more than USSR Superman did.
    Injustice is the best series I've ever read. Better than Civil Wars, the Phoenix Saga... you name it.

    The thing about making Superman, Hal, Robin, et al, bad guys is that they weren't necessarily supposed to be good in the first place. Steve Rogers was selected because he was good. This is why him becoming a traitor makes no sense. Doing this stunt in the middle of the MCU series is even more dumb -- seeing Nazi Cap in the comics while seeing Good Cap on film.
    I have a big cook.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to decedent For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017),Hal Jordan (04-13-2017)

  17. #29
    Points: 30,469, Level: 42
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 581
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassVeteran
    decedent's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    390557
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    7,037
    Points
    30,469
    Level
    42
    Thanks Given
    2,238
    Thanked 2,794x in 2,008 Posts
    Mentioned
    123 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    That's fair. Superman comics are the epitome of lazy writing in comics. "Well, we got him in a jam he can't get out of. What now?" "He gets a new power!"
    He now has a "super flare." I don't know or care what that is. I own thousands of comic books and maybe 4 of them are Superman.

    Too powerful = too boring. That's what I like about mutants: one simple power that manifests itself at puberty. When they work in teams, their individual powers make the group that much stronger -- like when Colossus throws Wolverine, making him a razor-sharp cannonball.


    Fastball special:

    I have a big cook.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to decedent For This Useful Post:

    Green Arrow (04-13-2017),Hal Jordan (04-13-2017)

  19. #30
    Points: 158,710, Level: 95
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 2,940
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdrive50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupVeteran
    Green Arrow's Avatar Overlord
    Karma
    620067
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    47,841
    Points
    158,710
    Level
    95
    Thanks Given
    54,414
    Thanked 24,816x in 16,297 Posts
    Mentioned
    1674 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by decedent View Post
    Injustice is the best series I've ever read. Better than Civil Wars, the Phoenix Saga... you name it.

    The thing about making Superman, Hal, Robin, et al, bad guys is that they weren't necessarily supposed to be good in the first place. Steve Rogers was selected because he was good. This is why him becoming a traitor makes no sense. Doing this stunt in the middle of the MCU series is even more dumb -- seeing Nazi Cap in the comics while seeing Good Cap on film.
    Have you read the new DC Bombshells series? It's pretty damn good so far. Like polar opposite of Nazi Cap.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Green Arrow For This Useful Post:

    Hal Jordan (04-13-2017)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts