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Thread: Christians Claim Rejection Of God Leads To Murder

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    Thumbs up Christians Claim Rejection Of God Leads To Murder

    We doubt if we will ever get a definitive answer, especially one that satisfies all people, or even most people. As God Himself says in Genesis 8:21, “The intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth” (all of the mass shooters seem to be men).
    However, we urge everyone to consider this answer:
    By removing God, the Bible, God's Law, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit from society, including the mass media and the schools, we are raising generations of people with no faith in God or Jesus and, hence, no moral conscience, and no self-control. If so many people have no faith, no moral conscience and no self-control, then it’s no wonder our society is suffering from all these mass murders by evil lone gunmen.
    For some reason, the word “evil” has become a pariah in modern discourse. If you remove God, the Bible, God’s Law, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, then doesn’t the notion of good and evil become meaningless?
    As Paul points out in Romans 2:29, people become good and do the right thing only when their hearts, or their conscience or inner souls, are at least partly sanctified, cleansed, redeemed, and transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...der-in-newtown

    What needs to be said here? I don't think any non-christian agrees with the Christians.

    Could I turn the tables and assume that they would say faith in God leads people away from murder?

    What about the crusades? The genocide of Native Americans? The holocaust? To me it seems to be that a faith in God leads to murders due to the feelings of Manifest Destiny, and this article is a great example of that. A Christian writing about how everyone else is a murderer. Clearly that is what their God would want.


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    roadmaster's Avatar Senior Member
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    If you don't know Him how would you know? " By removing God, the Bible, God's Law, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit from society, including the mass media and the schools, we are raising generations of people with no faith in God or Jesus and, hence, no moral conscience, and no self-control. If so many people have no faith, no moral conscience and no self-control, then it’s no wonder our society is suffering from all these mass murders by evil lone gunmen" Are we not seeing this today? I wasn't aware Christians murdered Indians like many non-believers did. Now if they are trying to kill you or your family I can. The holocaust was done by a man that was inspired by Darwin. The crusaders, I wasn't there but if they were true Christians we do have a right to defend ourselves. Your point is useless and you never look in the mirror. Killing and murdering are two different things. I could kill an armed man trying to break into my house and that wouldn't be considered murder. If I went out and started shooting people for no reason now that would be murder.

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    Deadwood (01-10-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
    If you don't know Him how would you know? " By removing God, the Bible, God's Law, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit from society, including the mass media and the schools, we are raising generations of people with no faith in God or Jesus and, hence, no moral conscience, and no self-control. If so many people have no faith, no moral conscience and no self-control, then it’s no wonder our society is suffering from all these mass murders by evil lone gunmen" Are we not seeing this today? I wasn't aware Christians murdered Indians like many non-believers did. Now if they are trying to kill you or your family I can. The holocaust was done by a man that was inspired by Darwin. The crusaders, I wasn't there but if they were true Christians we do have a right to defend ourselves. Your point is useless and you never look in the mirror. Killing and murdering are two different things. I could kill an armed man trying to break into my house and that wouldn't be considered murder. If I went out and started shooting people for no reason now that would be murder.
    I have no faith in god, jesus, the bible, or any of that rubbish. Are you saying I have no self control or morals?

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    Ah, it looks like shootings have gone down over the last 20 years. Maybe this is the result of the more widespread rejection of the fraudulent teachings of Christianity. What would Mike Huckabee say about it, if he knew the truth?
    Last edited by GrassrootsConservative; 01-10-2013 at 02:19 AM.

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    By the same type of dubious "logic" , does belief and faith in the Gun lead people to murder?
    Please don't just tell me that it saves them from being murdered --- cupboard / closet woman showed how debatable that can be .

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrassrootsConservative View Post
    http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...der-in-newtown

    What needs to be said here? I don't think any non-christian agrees with the Christians.

    Could I turn the tables and assume that they would say faith in God leads people away from murder?

    What about the crusades? The genocide of Native Americans? The holocaust? To me it seems to be that a faith in God leads to murders due to the feelings of Manifest Destiny, and this article is a great example of that. A Christian writing about how everyone else is a murderer. Clearly that is what their God would want.

    Grassroots,
    The liberalization of the laws of Allah (God) leads to the doing of unGodly thoughts and actions. One of the laws states that "though shalt not kill outside of the laws of Justice". The Liberalized version or interpretation says, "Though shalt not kill thy own kind" then it bleeds into, what does the law actually mean? The rest is history. I will give another example, the law of disbelief or turning away from Islam (the ways of righteous conduct). The Liberalized interpretation says that this applies to those who leave religion, when in actuality the law is for those who have sworn to do righteous deeds and live a righteous live and then turn around and do the opposite; hypocrisy, wicked deeds, thoughts and actions, etc. The law in no way states that believers are to kill them, unless said person commits wicked actions against them or innocent others but the Liberalized ones take it to the extreme for power, control and notoriety which is actually against the laws and codes themselves. No live is to be taken OUTSIDE OF THE LAWS OF JUSTICE, PERIOD!
    The consequence of turning away from doing righteousness will eventually result in someone seeking your life because of what you have done.

    ​This has nothing to do with religion (a set group of rituals) and everything to do with personal conduct.

    There are many forms of Liberalism and most if not all are bad, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Alif Qadr; 01-10-2013 at 10:55 AM.
    مندوب المختار مختصة هي تستحق ابنه الحكمة من أطفال رحلة ليلية الثناء
    Alif Qadr Muhktar Muhammad Bashir ibn Bani Isr
    باسم "الله الرحمن الرحيم"
    In the name of Allah The Beneficent The Merciful

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
    If you don't know Him how would you know? " By removing God, the Bible, God's Law, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit from society, including the mass media and the schools, we are raising generations of people with no faith in God or Jesus and, hence, no moral conscience, and no self-control. If so many people have no faith, no moral conscience and no self-control, then it’s no wonder our society is suffering from all these mass murders by evil lone gunmen" Are we not seeing this today? I wasn't aware Christians murdered Indians like many non-believers did. Now if they are trying to kill you or your family I can. The holocaust was done by a man that was inspired by Darwin. The crusaders, I wasn't there but if they were true Christians we do have a right to defend ourselves. Your point is useless and you never look in the mirror. Killing and murdering are two different things. I could kill an armed man trying to break into my house and that wouldn't be considered murder. If I went out and started shooting people for no reason now that would be murder.
    OK, but since God is unknowable and ineffable, it can only be by faith that you accept this or that as moral. And that morality, call it Christian morality could influence nonbelievers, could be the same morality nonbelievers discover. We know believers and nonbelievers alike can be moral. But we cannot know the source of this morality since it emerges and evolves from society through group selection (borrowing from Adam Smith and Friedrich August Hayek and others).



    BTW, Hitler wasn't inspired by Darwin. Hitler tried to (re)design and perfect man in some superhuman image. Darwin said you can't design man, man is a product of undesigned, unplanned evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alif Qadr View Post
    Grassroots,
    The liberalization of the laws of Allah (God) leads to the doing of unGodly thoughts and actions. One of the laws states that "though shalt not kill outside of the laws of Justice". The Liberalized version or interpretation says, "Though shalt not kill thy own kind" then it bleeds into, what does the law actually mean? The rest is history. I will give another example, the law of disbelief or turning away from Islam (the ways of righteous conduct). The Liberalized interpretation says that this applies to those who leave religion, when in actuality the law is for those who have sworn to do righteous deeds and live a righteous live and then turn around and do the opposite; hypocrisy, wicked deeds, thoughts and actions, etc. The law in no way states that believers are to kill them, unless said person commits wicked actions against them or innocent others but the Liberalized ones take it to the extreme for power, control and notoriety which is actually against the laws and codes themselves. No live is to be taken OUTSIDE OF THE LAWS OF JUSTICE, PERIOD!
    The consequence of turning away from doing righteousness will eventually result in someone seeking your life because of what you have done.

    ​This has nothing to do with religion (a set group of rituals) and everything to do with personal conduct.

    There are many forms of Liberalism and most if not all are bad, in my opinion.
    ​This has nothing to do with religion (a set group of rituals) and everything to do with personal conduct.
    I would only add in society--everything to do with personal conduct in society. Morality has to do with social interaction.

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    Interesting direction of the thread, but my point was more to create a discussion for why christians think nonchristians have no morals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrassrootsConservative View Post
    Interesting direction of the thread, but my point was more to create a discussion for why christians think nonchristians have no morals.
    I have met only a few who think that way and wasn't much impressed that they were really Christian anyway.

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