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Thread: Third tPF Town Hall: 4/22-4/23

  1. #51
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    Common's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethere View Post
    You are never going to be elected to congress either, so using your logic, why should you even get a vote?
    Go reread my post
    LETS GO BRANDON
    F Joe Biden

  2. #52
    Original Ranter
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    Captain Obvious's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I don't have a vendetta against moderation. I just don't like bad moderation. Moderators serve an important purpose on a forum. Their job is not only to enforce the forum rules, but to do it in a manner that encourages discussion. What we have here are a bunch of chest thumpers who kill more threads with their heavy handed tactics than they salvage. The whole system sucks.

    YOU could do a better job of moderating than what we've got. That shows you how simple it really is.
    Maybe there should be a more formal mod action review process usung VIP's (and not ADMIN)

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  4. #53
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    William's Avatar Senior Member
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    Let me tell those of you talking about the VIPs, what it is to be a VIP. VIPs are not privileged members, and VIPs have no power. VIPs are simply members who have been appointed to act as good examples to the other board members. Believe me, it's not always easy to be a VIP - life on the board would be simpler for me if I could attack all the people here who seem to want to attack me. But I can't if I want to remain a VIP, and while that sometimes sucks, I think it is a good system. In fact I recently suggested that no mods or VIPs should be allowed to continue if they even have one infraction. Sure it means people like me have to take some flak without responding, but people get tired of attacking you if you don't give them the satisfaction of getting mad, and they move on to the next easy target.

    So no, VIPs are not chosen from people's mates, and it's not all beer and skittles being a VIP.
    Oh, I wish I were a glow worm,
    for a glow worm's never glum,
    'cause how can you be grumpy
    when the sun shines out your bum!

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  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethere View Post
    It's not even close to a popular election. It's hard to believe that I would have to explain that at a forum dedicated to politics.

    Our system is like the British experience would be if they didn't have a house of Commons. Would you consider the house of lords an elected body or a selected one? How responsive would it be without the house of Commons to the needs and wishes of the people?

    Why don't you appreciate democracy? What we have now is a system that preserves power for a select few. That it does anything else is purely a stroke of luck.

    Here in America why don't we get rid of elections and just let Congress and the supreme court select their own replacements? What would the result of that be?

    We have a king. There is nothing we can do about that as @ADMIN owns the forum. The good news is that he is a benevolent monarch.

    I have no issues with that.

    But let's not pretend we have a forum run by its members. What we have instead is a forum run by its original ravers. It is responsive to their needs, not ours. Our system is designed to preserve their power and influence.

    Most of the vips are part time posters. That cannot be disputed. Nor can it ever be changed as they self select their own replacements. Who represents the people who actually use this forum?

    No one, and as things stand now no one ever will.
    This forum is not a government, and if it was, it would not be a direct democracy. ADMIN owns this forum, it is his private property. What goes on here is HIS personal prerogative, and he has set up the leadership system the way it is. Moderators choose who joins their ranks, with ADMIN's input, so they can work together as a cohesive team and so ADMIN can trust who serves. VIPs choose who joins their ranks for similar reasons, so we can work together as a team without constantly being so at each other's throats that nothing gets done.

    If you think changes should be made to the forum that are within the power of VIPs to change, PM a VIP and make a proposition. I can promise that I will bring it to the others for discussion and a vote and tell you if it passes or fails. If you make that proposition to another VIP and it never gets brought to the VIP room, tell the mods or ADMIN.

    But ADMIN has made his opinion known on the subject of direct elections of mods and VIPs and it isn't something that is going to happen.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

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  8. #55
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    I'm very pleased with the moderation on this forum. My only suggestion (And it's only a minor issue) is that we try to stay on track when debating issues; too many times people are more concerned with quibbling as opposed to discussing/debating the original thread. I understand that sarcasm or a jab is part of debating in a forum but once it becomes personal it takes all the enjoyment out of posting.

    I don't come in here to insult or name calling of the posters; there have been many times when I see a topic that would be enjoyable to debate but It's tough to inject my opinion or debate the issue when posters are busy insulting each other back and forth, so I just read the posts and move on.

    Aside from that minor issue, I think this is one of the better-run forums on the net; its like a small family sitting around a dinner table discussing the days events.
    God Bless America, God Bless our Military and God Bless the Police who defended the country against the insurgents on January 6, 2021

    Think 3rd party for 2024 folks. Clean up America.

    Once I tell you that we agree to disagree there will be no more discussion between us in the thread so please don't waste your time continuing to argue your points because I will not respond.

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  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    This forum is not a government, and if it was, it would not be a direct democracy. ADMIN owns this forum, it is his private property. What goes on here is HIS personal prerogative, and he has set up the leadership system the way it is. Moderators choose who joins their ranks, with ADMIN's input, so they can work together as a cohesive team and so ADMIN can trust who serves. VIPs choose who joins their ranks for similar reasons, so we can work together as a team without constantly being so at each other's throats that nothing gets done.

    If you think changes should be made to the forum that are within the power of VIPs to change, PM a VIP and make a proposition. I can promise that I will bring it to the others for discussion and a vote and tell you if it passes or fails. If you make that proposition to another VIP and it never gets brought to the VIP room, tell the mods or ADMIN.

    But ADMIN has made his opinion known on the subject of direct elections of mods and VIPs and it isn't something that is going to happen.
    I am looking for a democratic component to the vips, to ensure that there are members who are responsive to the wishes and needs of the membership. I'm not seeking revolution or even democracy. I seek only to have limited representation in the room when discussions are held.
    Ok, I just told you, mr vip. You started this thread to seek out our input. Here's mine. Please advance my argument in committee. Keep me up to date on your progress. Thanks for volunteering.

    Your friend, bethere.
    Last edited by Bethere; 04-23-2017 at 11:13 AM.

  11. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethere View Post
    Ok, I just told you. Please advance my argument in committee. Keep me up to date on your progress. Thanks for volunteering.

    Your friend, bethere.
    I've already told you ADMIN has final say and does not support the direct election of mods and VIPs.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

  12. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    I've already told you ADMIN has final say and does not support the direct election of mods and VIPs.
    So your promise to advance my argument was hollow. I wasn't seeking an advocate.

    This thread was a waste of time.

    Have a great day.

  13. #59
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    resister's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Arrow View Post
    I've already told you ADMIN has final say and does not support the direct election of mods and VIPs.
    Thought I would repost this^ for good measure.
    There is no God but Resister and Refugee is his messenger’.

    Book of Democrat Things, Chapter 1:1






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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by resister View Post
    Thought I would repost this^ for good measure.
    "I can promise that I will bring it to the others for discussion and a vote and tell you if it passes or fails. If you make that proposition to another VIP and it never gets brought to the VIP room, tell the mods or ADMIN. "--green arrow.

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