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Thread: Dissent & Democratic Reform in China

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    waltky's Avatar Senior Member
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    Question Dissent & Democratic Reform in China

    New Chinese leadership gonna have to offer up some reforms...

    China’s New Leaders Facing Pressures to Reform
    November 05, 2012 — China begins a once-in-decade leadership transition this week when officials meet Thursday for the 18th Communist Party Congress. The stakes are higher than previous transitions because of growing public concerns about corruption and the party’s lack of transparency. Just how the new leaders will respond to the challenges remains a mystery.
    As China gears up for its biggest political party in 10 years, its leaders are trying to keep the public focus on the party’s accomplishments and the country’s bright future. The congress is the closest thing the communist country has to the excitement of political campaigns in democratic nations, where policies are discussed and debated ahead of time, said David Kelly of China Policy, a research group that monitors Chinese views on the economy, reform and other topics. “Even though we foresee at the moment without final confirmation that there will be a fairly conservative team, they are not facing routine questions, they are facing some momentous questions,” said Kelly.

    China has seen growing tensions with its neighbors in recent months, in particular Japan, about disputed islands in the East China Sea. Its massive economy - the second largest in the world - also is facing uncertainties. Kelly said that has helped strengthen the case for reform. “Reform in China is not a mild issue, it's going to hurt some people and benefit others. And the balance of these two is going to be decided by the people who now step up into politburo's standing committee and the other important parts of the party,” he said.

    How much China’s leader-in-waiting Xi Jinping is willing to make a break with the past is unclear. Xi’s father was politically prominent and that makes him what the Chinese call a "princeling." Many people in China tend to view princelings as elitist. Chinese economist Hu Xingdou said princelings tend to be more reform-minded, though, than other party factions, which are cautious and afraid of losing power. “The princelings are different, since they were kids they thought that this country was theirs, because it was their parents that laid the foundation for this world. For them the ownership is clear, this country is theirs,” said Hu Xingdou.

    But some princelings, such as Bo Xilai, have taken that sense of entitlement to an extreme, and because of his case and countless others, there is growing public discontent in China about wealth inequality and corruption. Bo was once a rising political star in China, who now faces a wide range of accusations from corruption and other wrongdoing. On Sunday, he was formally expelled from the Communist Party and is expected to soon face criminal charges. Although most analysts say they do not expect to see any dramatic reforms from China’s new leaders right away, they do hope for more transparency.

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    RollingWave's Avatar Senior Member
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    if the general story of East Asia post WW2 tells us anything on Democracy reform, it's that it will usually come as a result of improved economic fundamentals, this was very much true in Taiwan and South Korea, and to a lesser extend, Japan as well, In relative terms, China today is not nearly as much of an Authoritarian black hole as Taiwan or South Korea was in their heyday. so one could reasonably argue that it is likely that China will head towards that road as well, though the process is unlikely to be very fast or pretty. But as long as they manage it without gigantic civil war it would already be a lot more than many country could say.

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    Carygrant's Avatar Banned
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    Given Tiananmen Square is close to 25 years ago , we are beginning to see the emergence of powerful Chinese people in their early fifties who were influenced by that Historical tilting moment .
    In the further context of global inter locking that has occurred in the same time period , it seems inevitable that China will follow modern American and Russian practise --- of publicly relaxing notional power symbols whilst tightening individual freedoms in order to keep a semblance of true control over the masses .
    Surely the trick of governing larger and larger populations is to move to more right wing solutions whilst constantly trying to persuade the masses that improvement of social conditions outweighs the intrusions into privacy and a full expression of ideas .

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    waltky's Avatar Senior Member
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    Angry

    Granny says dey's a buncha commonists...

    China's Great Political Leap Backward
    November 13, 2012, An increasingly out of touch Communist leadership vows to "resolutely not follow Western political models."
    After years of parsing China's political jargon, I wasn't expecting anything dramatic from the 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, which opened in Beijing last week. It was foolish, I knew, to look for bold statements on the issue most critical to China's future: political reform. Standing in the Great Hall of the People and delivering the political report that would set the tone for the country's next generation of leaders, President Hu Jintao wouldn't call for bold change with words like "constitutionalism" or "separation of powers."

    But it was possible he might signal a renewed push for political reform by including some of the party's more liberal language. Phrases like "power is given by the people," used in 2010 by China's leader in waiting, Xi Jinping. Or "checking power and protecting rights," featured prominently this year in the party's mouthpiece, People's Daily. Instead, this year's political report showed little or no momentum on this crucial issue. The course set by Mr. Hu's report suggests we can expect no real action on political reform. China now stands at a political crossroads, but the Communist Party isn't budging.

    Twenty-five years ago at the 13th National Congress, discussion of political reform focused on the over-concentration of power, a phenomenon that was criticized by reformist leader Deng Xiaoping himself. How was reform to be accomplished? Ahead of the 1987 congress, General-Secretary Zhao Ziyang said political reform was fundamentally about "separating the party and the government." "If the problem of the substitution of the party for the government is not dealt with," he said, "there is no way to begin the process of political reform."

    The 13th National Congress was the high-water mark for dealing with core issues of political reform, including reform of the party's leadership system. And it was only on that basis that related issues—such as restructuring government administration and turning the National People's Congress into a real legislature—were to be tackled. Unfortunately, the reforms that were to have started after 1987 came to an abrupt end with the events of June 4, 1989, in Tiananmen Square.

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    Taking the words of such pronouncements literally is about as silly as taking Rush Limbaugh literally, China watchers almost never give a damn about the official stance , what the top leaders actually say in much less formal occasions are often far more insightful into what's actually going on

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    Deadwood's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    if the general story of East Asia post WW2 tells us anything on Democracy reform, it's that it will usually come as a result of improved economic fundamentals, this was very much true in Taiwan and South Korea, and to a lesser extend, Japan as well, In relative terms, China today is not nearly as much of an Authoritarian black hole as Taiwan or South Korea was in their heyday. so one could reasonably argue that it is likely that China will head towards that road as well, though the process is unlikely to be very fast or pretty. But as long as they manage it without gigantic civil war it would already be a lot more than many country could say.


    I seriously doubt that China will see anything like Western democracy in our lifetimes. It is not in the Chinese psyche to even want freedom. It is not part of the culture; hard for us to understand, but it's true.
    I had a friend return from China a few years ago. She had gone there to meet a guy with whom she had been internet friends, and from there they traveled to western Europe and then to Moscow. She commented that her friend was anxious, bouncing off walls and afraid of the most innocent things while in Europe but he settled down when he got to Moscow, still a domineering nation.

    The west never understood Tianemen Square. It was not about "freedoms" as we know them here, but more about getting access to the best schools and courses, being able to chose a profession as opposed to having one shoved down their throats.

    Interestingly, now almost 30 years later, none of that has changed.


    Slow and ugly is right. And we haven't even mentioned slave labor yet.


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    You are correct that Tianenmen was not really as much about freedom as the West want to believe, however I find it ridiculas to believe in statement such as Chinese not wanting Democracy due to "cultural" issues given that similar or even same cultural countries right next to them have all gone through the process very recently. and China is showing almost every signs of following the path. There is not much you can say about China today (good or bad) that you can't say about Taiwan or Korea between the 1960s-80s.

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    Cali's Avatar Junior Member
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    I really want to share this. For those who does not know the real face of the dirty bastard, one party dictatorship, corruption Chinese Communist Party. Please, if you have time, please watch these videos from Youtube, I post the playlist below:

    Falun Gong and Its Persecution in China
    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...4&feature=plcp

    Bo Xilai's Scandal
    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...8&feature=plcp

    There tons and tones more dirty things that Chinese Communist Party do. Those who haven't watch "Nine Commentaries on Chinese Communist Party" - you should watch it, definately recommended.

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