The Origins of State and Government

[Chris]

From The Origins of State and Government (.PDF):

It cannot be the case that
all wealth is attributable to
the state. Historically, the
existence of a state required
a surplus to sustain it in
the first place.

State formation represents
a transformation
from ‘roving bandits’ to
‘stationary bandits.’ The
state is, at its core, a predatory
institution.

When meditating on
what it means to live as
free people we should
never forget that the state
doesn’t grant to us our
identities or our rights.

Property rights precedes the marketplace and that precedes the state

[KC]

Is there an internal contradiction in the way we see the state, Chris?

I agree that private property precedes the state. That much is clear. I also think that property is among Man's natural rights. We think the state should protect our natural rights, but in order for it to do that it must necessarily confiscate some of our property.

So, at some point we are giving up some of our property, one of our natural rights, precisely so the state will protect our natural rights.

[Chris]

Well, seems to me, the state goes well beyond mere protection of property and natural rights in social contracts like the US Constitution when it appropriates wealth for other purposes. Therein it become legalized theft.

[KC]

Well, seems to me, the state goes well beyond mere protection of property and natural rights in social contracts like the US Constitution when it appropriates wealth for other purposes. Therein it become legalized theft.

Wait, so, to be clear, you're saying that unless that property is confiscated in order to protect our natural rights, it's theft?

[Chris]

Wait, so, to be clear, you're saying that unless that property is confiscated in order to protect our natural rights, it's theft?

By social contract, the Constitution, even if only implied, we agree to give up certain powers to government. By that agreement, those powers do not entail theft. But anything beyond that is theft. Looking at it practically.

Theoretically, everything government appropriates is theft. That video I posted recently, http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...oss-of-Liberty, Judge Napolitano would agree, so would Lysander Spooner.