User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: The Origins of State and Government

  1. #1
    Points: 165,781, Level: 97
    Level completed: 4%, Points required for next Level: 3,869
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive1 year registered50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    24022
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    49,748
    Points
    165,781
    Level
    97
    Thanks Given
    3,493
    Thanked 8,870x in 6,953 Posts
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    292

    The Origins of State and Government

    From The Origins of State and Government (.PDF):

    It cannot be the case that
    all wealth is attributable to
    the state. Historically, the
    existence of a state required
    a surplus to sustain it in
    the first place.
    State formation represents
    a transformation
    from ‘roving bandits’ to
    ‘stationary bandits.’ The
    state is, at its core, a predatory
    institution.
    When meditating on
    what it means to live as
    free people we should
    never forget that the state
    doesn’t grant to us our
    identities or our rights.
    Property rights precedes the marketplace and that precedes the state

  2. #2
    tPF Moderator
    V.I.P
    Points: 58,288, Level: 58
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 62
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialYour first GroupCreated Album picturesTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    KC's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    17827
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    8,306
    Points
    58,288
    Level
    58
    Thanks Given
    3,949
    Thanked 3,506x in 2,499 Posts
    Mentioned
    239 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    188
    Is there an internal contradiction in the way we see the state, Chris?

    I agree that private property precedes the state. That much is clear. I also think that property is among Man's natural rights. We think the state should protect our natural rights, but in order for it to do that it must necessarily confiscate some of our property.

    So, at some point we are giving up some of our property, one of our natural rights, precisely so the state will protect our natural rights.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur

  3. #3
    Points: 165,781, Level: 97
    Level completed: 4%, Points required for next Level: 3,869
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive1 year registered50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    24022
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    49,748
    Points
    165,781
    Level
    97
    Thanks Given
    3,493
    Thanked 8,870x in 6,953 Posts
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    292
    Well, seems to me, the state goes well beyond mere protection of property and natural rights in social contracts like the US Constitution when it appropriates wealth for other purposes. Therein it become legalized theft.

  4. #4
    tPF Moderator
    V.I.P
    Points: 58,288, Level: 58
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 62
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialYour first GroupCreated Album picturesTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    KC's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    17827
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    8,306
    Points
    58,288
    Level
    58
    Thanks Given
    3,949
    Thanked 3,506x in 2,499 Posts
    Mentioned
    239 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    188
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Well, seems to me, the state goes well beyond mere protection of property and natural rights in social contracts like the US Constitution when it appropriates wealth for other purposes. Therein it become legalized theft.
    Wait, so, to be clear, you're saying that unless that property is confiscated in order to protect our natural rights, it's theft?
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur

  5. #5
    Points: 165,781, Level: 97
    Level completed: 4%, Points required for next Level: 3,869
    Overall activity: 53.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive1 year registered50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    24022
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    49,748
    Points
    165,781
    Level
    97
    Thanks Given
    3,493
    Thanked 8,870x in 6,953 Posts
    Mentioned
    479 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Wait, so, to be clear, you're saying that unless that property is confiscated in order to protect our natural rights, it's theft?
    By social contract, the Constitution, even if only implied, we agree to give up certain powers to government. By that agreement, those powers do not entail theft. But anything beyond that is theft. Looking at it practically.

    Theoretically, everything government appropriates is theft. That video I posted recently, http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...oss-of-Liberty, Judge Napolitano would agree, so would Lysander Spooner.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Useful Post:

    KC (11-06-2012)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Forum Topsite Critical Acclaim
Top Ron Paul Sites - Ranking the best Ron Paul related Freedom and Liberty Websites
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO