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Thread: Sexy vs. Sexualized: The Difference

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    Matt's back? I though you two spit.
    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Okay, I put it to my guy, Matt, and here's what he got out of it, quote:

    "As far as I can tell, he seems to think that a woman wanting to look sexually attractive on her own terms means she's trying to gain something and sexualized means ...wait no. Umm. I dunno, this is kinda hard to decipher. It's almost Trumpian in its language. He seems to assume that sexualized means the woman is still in control and is basically the same as sexy, as far as I can tell. Dunno if I'm right there though. That is quite hard to decipher. Okay, so sexy means she's doing it for gain and sexualized means men assuming she's doing it for gain. That appears to be what he's saying? I think? Seems like a misunderstanding of your point."

    I provide his remarks just so you know that it was NOT just me. That was objectively a difficult post to decipher.

    In any event, okay, whatever. I guess I take the "troll" remark back then. *shrugs*

    I still think even your version is BS. I'm distinguishing between contexts where women (or female characters in this case) express ownership of their sexuality versus contexts that promote male control of female bodies. I don't see how there's any double-standard there. That's pretty straightforward. I think he (and you) are just trying to disingenuously fabricate a double-standard in the OP that doesn't exist just so you can have some excuse to object to everything I say because I'm a feminist.
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    Peter wrote:
    Matt's back? I though you two spit.
    It's been an on-again, off-again type of relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I took it as sexy is when women use it and sexualized is when men do. It could be their bodies, their sexuality.
    Looks like you had the correct take.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Okay, I put it to my guy, Matt, and here's what he got out of it, quote:

    "As far as I can tell, he seems to think that a woman wanting to look sexually attractive on her own terms means she's trying to gain something and sexualized means ...wait no. Umm. I dunno, this is kinda hard to decipher. It's almost Trumpian in its language. He seems to assume that sexualized means the woman is still in control and is basically the same as sexy, as far as I can tell. Dunno if I'm right there though. That is quite hard to decipher. Okay, so sexy means she's doing it for gain and sexualized means men assuming she's doing it for gain. That appears to be what he's saying? I think? Seems like a misunderstanding of your point."

    I provide his remarks just so you know that it was NOT just me. That was objectively a difficult post to decipher.

    In any event, okay, whatever. I guess I take the "troll" remark back then. *shrugs*

    I still think even your version is BS. I'm distinguishing between contexts where women (or female characters in this case) express ownership of their sexuality versus contexts that promote male control of female bodies. I don't see how there's any double-standard there. That's pretty straightforward. I think he (and you) are just trying to disingenuously fabricate a double-standard in the OP that doesn't exist just so you can have some excuse to object to everything I say because I'm a feminist.



    THIS is it! That's the idea I'm trying to convey here. I also like that you pointed out that "sexy" does not require revealing clothing or anything like that.
    Fair enough. I'm sorry you feel that way.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Okay, I put it to my guy, Matt, and here's what he got out of it, quote:

    "As far as I can tell, he seems to think that a woman wanting to look sexually attractive on her own terms means she's trying to gain something and sexualized means ...wait no. Umm. I dunno, this is kinda hard to decipher. It's almost Trumpian in its language. He seems to assume that sexualized means the woman is still in control and is basically the same as sexy, as far as I can tell. Dunno if I'm right there though. That is quite hard to decipher. Okay, so sexy means she's doing it for gain and sexualized means men assuming she's doing it for gain. That appears to be what he's saying? I think? Seems like a misunderstanding of your point."

    I provide his remarks just so you know that it was NOT just me. That was objectively a difficult post to decipher.

    In any event, okay, whatever. I guess I take the "troll" remark back then. *shrugs*

    I still think even your version is BS. I'm distinguishing between contexts where women (or female characters in this case) express ownership of their sexuality versus contexts that promote male control of female bodies. I don't see how there's any double-standard there. That's pretty straightforward. I think he (and you) are just trying to disingenuously fabricate a double-standard in the OP that doesn't exist just so you can have some excuse to object to everything I say because I'm a feminist.



    THIS is it! That's the idea I'm trying to convey here. I also like that you pointed out that "sexy" does not require revealing clothing or anything like that.

    Right, being sexy is not necessarily to control, but it can be used that way. A hooker or a stripper is being sexy to make money,

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    It isn't just you, Polly. 'dontread', "p.p.", 'Chris', etc. have in no thoughtful or pertinent way responded to what you wrote in the OP. 'donttread' started the ball rolling with a knee-jerk, overly defensive, logically impenetrable non sequitur of a "response" and the others have simply rallied behind him. A serious, good faith re-reading of your OP - assuming that they actually read it all to being with - would cause them to understand their initial error in thinking you were talking about A, rather than B...but figure the odds of that happening.

    While not a gamer, I'm certainly a movie fan, and I think I understand exactly what point you were making in the OP. Conflating "sexy" and "sexualized" is not understanding the difference between Alexander Skarsgard or Charlie Hunnam running around half-naked in their last films and a Chippendale's dancer shaking his anatomy in women's faces. Sexualization is a de-personalizing making of sex itself the center, focus and entirety of the existence of any image or performance. That some members here apparently just took a quick run through the OP and decided it would be a good time to dredge up the self-pitying "It's only bad if men do it" card is unfortunate - but entirely predictable.
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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    It isn't just you, Polly. 'dontread', "p.p.", 'Chris', etc. have in no thoughtful or pertinent way responded to what you wrote in the OP. 'donttread' started the ball rolling with a knee-jerk, overly defensive, logically impenetrable non sequitur of a "response" and the others have simply rallied behind him. A serious, good faith re-reading of your OP - assuming that they actually read it all to being with - would cause them to understand their initial error in thinking you were talking about A, rather than B...but figure the odds of that happening.

    While not a gamer, I'm certainly a movie fan, and I think I understand exactly what point you were making in the OP. Conflating "sexy" and "sexualized" is not understanding the difference between Alexander Skarsgard or Charlie Hunnam running around half-naked in their last films and a Chippendale's dancer shaking his anatomy in women's faces. Sexualization is a de-personalizing making of sex itself the center, focus and entirety of the existence of any image or performance. That some members here apparently just took a quick run through the OP and decided it would be a good time to dredge up the self-pitying "It's only bad if men do it" card is unfortunate - but entirely predictable.
    initial error in thinking you were talking about A, rather than B.
    Talks about B. Bad faith.

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    Wonder Woman is a superhero action movie that I'm actually looking forward to.

    Firstly, it seems fresh, if for the only reason the main hero is a woman.

    Secondly, she's seems pretty compelling as a character (judging by my limited observations of the commercials). For whatever reason, I like the idea of a gorgeous woman running around kicking people's asses in expertly choreographed action sequences.

    Thirdly, I enjoy the WWII context (if I've interpreted the commercials correctly) in which it takes place. For some reason, superheros and WWII go together really well (think X-Men movies, for example).

    As for the OP's distinction between sexy and sexualized, I would tend to agree, although I find the need to even explain this to some people rather tiresome. Can't we just have a few areas of life where the only or overriding concern is pure entertainment? Do people have to politicize everything? I mean, OF COURSE the actress who plays Wonder Woman is going to be a gorgeous biological female. And OF COURSE they are going to leverage her sex appeal, not only to widen the potential market, but to stay true to the original story line of a race of super-women living on a tropical island. Correct me if I'm wrong, but physically exceptional warrior women living in a tropical environment probably aren't going to be wearing sweat pants.
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    When do we discuss the sexual exploitation of men?
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    THIS is it! That's the idea I'm trying to convey here. I also like that you pointed out that "sexy" does not require revealing clothing or anything like that.
    I agree that it does not require it, but sexiness, at the most fundamental level, is biological, so showing some skin, while not required, is certainly encouraged. We have to remember that humans evolved in warmer climates and in tightly knit tribal communities where polyamory was probably the norm. Skimpy clothing, sweaty glistening bodies, liberal sex... they are paradoxically conservative insofar as they are the oldest model of humanity.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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