Now here's the good news

[Kabuki Joe]

Good question. On my view, people cannot be moral if they are not first free.

...what?...freedom comes with immorality...if you have nothing to keep you in line $%^& MORALITY!!!!!...


Kabuki Joe

[Chris]

...what?...freedom comes with immorality...if you have nothing to keep you in line $%^& MORALITY!!!!!...


Kabuki Joe

Being moral means choosing good or evil in your actions towards others. That's possible only if you're free to choose. Coerced action is amoral action where the question becomes are the commanders, the elite moral?

[KC]

Being moral means choosing good or evil in your actions towards others. That's possible only if you're free to choose. Coerced action is amoral action where the question becomes are the commanders, the elite moral?

I tried to make this point when an evangelical friend posted that voting for Democrats was a sin because of their support for same sex marriage, abortion etc. An absolute shitstorm endsued.

[Chris]

I tried to make this point when an evangelical friend posted that voting for Democrats was a sin because of their support for same sex marriage, abortion etc. An absolute shitstorm endsued.

I think I'm within Natural law theory, whereby we have natural rights. With regard to morals, natural law theory leaves the question of God open because as Grotius said "Just as even God cannot cause that two times two should not make four, so He cannot cause that which is intrinsically evil be not evil." (De Iure Belli ac Pacis (1625), cf The Ethics of Liberty).

[Mister D]

...I agree...and really, what is "off limits" to 1 group is not to another...so, since we are headed in same direction as Rome and Greece should we not be concerned?...I mean "when in Rome"...


Kabuki Joe

What's off limits depends on the culture. Pedophilia, however, was always off limits.

[KC]

I think I'm within Natural law theory, whereby we have natural rights. With regard to morals, natural law theory leaves the question of God open because as Grotius said "Just as even God cannot cause that two times two should not make four, so He cannot cause that which is intrinsically evil be not evil." (De Iure Belli ac Pacis (1625), cf The Ethics of Liberty).

I think natural law theory is strengthened when it is combined with faith. After all, if he exists, would God want a bunch of Chatty Cathy dolls, who's strings he could pull at any time and hear "I love you"? No, God would have given us free will, so that we choose to make the right moral choices, choose to love and treat one another with respect, and ultimately choose to love Him. Why would he want man to take away what He has given?

[GrassrootsConservative]

What's off limits depends on the culture. Pedophilia, as well as gay marriage until very recently, was always off limits.

You just know once the gays get their marriage then pedophiles will want to become accepted too... and then the people who want to bump their bits together with animals.

When do we stop the slippery slope? It's disgusting.

[Mister D]

You just know once the gays get their marriage then pedophiles will want to become accepted too... and then the people who want to bump their bits together with animals.

When do we stop the slippery slope? It's disgusting.

Gay marriage is merely inane but pedophilia can potentially hurt children so the arguments against it have more of an emotional impact. How long will that last? Who knows?

[KC]

You just know once the gays get their marriage then pedophiles will want to become accepted too... and then the people who want to bump their bits together with animals.

When do we stop the slippery slope? It's disgusting.

Most today draw the line at consent. Children and animals can't give consent, so I don't think the slippery slope is all that slippery here.

[Mister D]

Most today draw the line at consent. Children and animals can't give consent, so I don't think the slippery slope is all that slippery here.

Sure it is. The idea that "children" (what does that mean? under 18?) cannot consent is not a biological law but a legal custom. It can change. A gay marriage, for example, would have been a bizarre idea to an early 20th century American. They drew the line at same sex marriage (assuming such a thing would even have crossed their minds) but that changed...abruptly.