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    Emergence of the modern welfare state



    Milton Freidman, Free to Choose:

    The first modern state to introduce on a fairly large scale the kind of welfare measures that have become popular in most societies today was the newly created German empire under the leadership of the "Iron Chancellor," Otto von Bismarck. In the early 1880s he introduced a comprehensive scheme of social security, offering the worker insurance against accident, sickness, and old age. His motives were a complex mixture of paternalistic concern for the lower classes and shrewd politics. His measures served to undermine the political appeal of the newly emerging Social Democrats.

    It may seem paradoxical that an essentially autocratic and aristocratic state such as pre—World War I Germany—in today's jargon, a right-wing dictatorship—should have led the way in introducing measures that are generally linked to socialism and the Left. But there is no paradox—even putting to one side Bismarck's political motives. Believers in aristocracy and socialism share a faith in centralized rule, in rule by command rather than by voluntary cooperation. They differ in who should rule: whether an elite determined by birth or experts supposedly chosen on merit. Both proclaim, no doubt sincerely, that they wish to promote the well-being of the "general public," that they know what is in the "public interest" and how to attain it better than the ordinary person. Both, therefore, profess a paternalistic philosophy. And both end up, if they attain power, promoting the interests of their own class in the name of the "general welfare."

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    What the German state did was an absolute necessity, on the one hand, and a deft political move on the other in that it not only defused the social tensions occasioned by a new way of life (i.e. liberal capitalism) but it also undermined the appeal of socialism and communism. I very much admire the Kaiserreich.
    Last edited by Mister D; 06-17-2017 at 10:29 PM.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Peter1469 (06-18-2017)

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    Bismark created an economic superpower with his united Germany.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    It didn't last long.

    Such states do not represent the people but their own interests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It didn't last long.

    Such states do not represent the people but their own interests.
    Nation states exist to protect their citizens. We have been under this system since the Treaty of Westphalia. I don't see a change anytime soon- other than through an economic crash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Nation states exist to protect their citizens. We have been under this system since the Treaty of Westphalia. I don't see a change anytime soon- other than through an economic crash.
    What is is not evidence for what ought to be. Laws don't make it so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    What is is not evidence for what ought to be. Laws don't make it so.
    I am talking about reality.

    If you want to talk theory I would like to see a return to what corporations were when the US was founded. Entities that were for a specific purpose for a limited time. Sound good to you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I am talking about reality.

    If you want to talk theory I would like to see a return to what corporations were when the US was founded. Entities that were for a specific purpose for a limited time. Sound good to you?
    Actually, Peter, you are talking theory, the theory that the nation-state, i.e., a few elite central planners can know what the people value and want. In reality that is impossible.

    Corporations are what they've always been, only possible with a strong state regulating and restricting business. They're just a continuation of the joint stock companies Adam Smith criticized.


    You also misuse "theory" and "reality." Your words are not reality, all you can hope to do is describe reality, and such descriptions are called theories about reality. Theory doesn't mean what could be or would be or should be.

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    Freidman goes on to explain why government has grown and why it fails...


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    This is a great topic and I wish more members would participate because I'd love to hear more perspectives. I'm still up in the air about how I feel about Government's role and how big or small it should be. It has a role and I think it's role changes based on what policies are being implemented.

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    Chris (06-18-2017)

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