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Thread: Why Won't Conservatives Defend Conservative Women?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    A woman's basic right to control her own body is not in dispute within the movement. If we forfeit that right, then we sign onto the logic that says rape is okay.
    So murdering children is justified by women being the evolutionary childbearers.

    Gotcha

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    You missed the whole point of my OP. Let me recap it for you:

    "In the past, American conservatives have complained about discrimination against women of a politically conservative bent. They have claimed that feminists only defend liberal, left wing, or other feminist women. And yet...who has it been defending the likes of Megyn Kelly, Gretchen Carlson, and Mika Brzezinski? Feminists. And you know who we've been having to defend these women against? You. Conservative men."

    In other words, I AM defending conservative women against sexist attacks. You are not.



    What on Earth are you talking about? I "permit" other women to hold whatever views they want! That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that comes out of Kellyanne Conway's mouth (e.g. her recent argument that it's sexist to criticize sexism), does it? I would still defend her if she were, for example, sexually harassed or what have you even so, just like I have with Megyn Kelly, Gretchen Carlson, and Mika.



    Serious feminists, such as yours truly, did/do not.



    "Everything" is not a gender issue with me. Gender issues, however, are. And yes, I care about them, admittedly more than most people. If you can't deal with that then let me recommend that you not click on my threads in the future. (As a matter of fact, why don't you do that regardless?)
    1. Maybe it's what we categorize as sexist is where we diverge. I don't consider every dispute with someone of the opposite sex to be a sexist dispute. I'm not saying you personally do but that's current dogma.

    2. IP, I wasn't directing my comments to you specifically; but to liberal women generally. Liberal women (my family included) excoriate conservative women for having their own thoughts that aren't liberal dogma. I don't track what you do or do not post so I wasn't speaking about you.

    3. As to Bill Clinton, we're on the same page though I would've never brought impeachment proceedings.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    DGUtley wrote:
    1. Maybe it's what we categorize as sexist is where we diverge. I don't consider every dispute with someone of the opposite sex to be a sexist dispute. I'm not saying you personally do but that's current dogma.
    Of course I don't "consider every dispute with someone of the opposite sex to be a sexist dispute." When evaluating whether something is sexist or not, the key is to ask what the likelihood of this same thing happening to a man is (or vice versa). Sexism is defined by double-standards that are not objective. The most common way that is done is by reducing women to our biology.

    As this applies to Donald Trump's commentaries, they are frequently gendered in nature. For example, after the first Republican debate in 2015, he got on national television to complain about Megyn Kelly's first question to him, explaining that she had asked it because she was having her period. Shortly thereafter, he went on to suggest that Carly Fiorina, the only female candidate running on the Republican ticket, should not be elected because "that's not the face of a president". He leveled the same type of critique on Hillary Clinton later on, seriously using as an argument that she lacked a "presidential look". In the primary battle against Ted Cruz, he retweeted a comparison photo of his wife versus his opponent's. His recent attack on Mika Brzezinski was likewise rooted in the idea that she was unattractive (as though he were exactly a Greek god or something). Or you might recall his little dispute with one of his former Ms. Universe winners over how fat she supposedly was, as though he weren't fatter. I could also go nuclear here and point out the ultimate example: what you saw and heard on that infamous Access Hollywood video about his attitude toward women in general. Or just the fact that owns a beauty pageant. Or his defenses of Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly in their sexual harassment scandals. You see a pattern here? It is obvious that he basically views women as meat and frequently attacks women by way of their (mostly imagined) biology.

    For that matter, Trump also has frequently attacked men in ways that disparage women. For example, referring to his opponents as "$#@!" and so forth.

    I'm just trying to help you grasp what sexism is here because you seem to have the wrong impression.

    2. IP, I wasn't directing my comments to you specifically; but to liberal women generally. Liberal women (my family included) excoriate conservative women for having their own thoughts that aren't liberal dogma. I don't track what you do or do not post so I wasn't speaking about you.
    *shrugs* Okay. It's not taken personally then. But I also think you're broad-brushing even when it comes to more mainstream liberals.

    Incidentally, not all leftists or feminists consider ourselves liberals. For my part, when I hear the term "liberalism" my instinct is to the think of neoliberalism, which is something I don't identify myself with. You may be intending the term in a more broad-brushing way that covers the entire political left, but we don't all view it that way or associate ourselves with that term. (I'm not even really sure that I consider neoliberalism a left wing perspective for that matter.)
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 07-06-2017 at 02:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Of course I don't "consider every dispute with someone of the opposite sex to be a sexist dispute." When evaluating whether something is sexist or not, the key is to ask what the likelihood of this same thing happening to a man is (or vice versa). Sexism is defined by double-standards that are not objective. The most common way that is done is by reducing women to our biology.
    As this applies to Donald Trump's commentaries, they are frequently gendered in nature. For example, after the first Republican debate in 2015, he got on national television to complain about Megyn Kelly's first question to him, explaining that she had asked it because she was having her period. Shortly thereafter, he went on to suggest that Carly Fiorina, the only female candidate running on the Republican ticket, should not be elected because "that's not the face of a president". He leveled the same type of critique on Hillary Clinton later on, seriously using as an argument that she lacked a "presidential look". In the primary battle against Ted Cruz, he retweeted a comparison photo of his wife versus his opponent's. His recent attack on Mika Brzezinski was likewise rooted in the idea that she was unattractive (as though he were exactly a Greek god or something). Or you might recall his little dispute with one of his former Ms. Universe winners over how fat she supposedly was, as though he weren't fatter. I could also go nuclear here and point out the ultimate example: what you saw and heard on that infamous Access Hollywood video about his attitude toward women in general. Or just the fact that owns a beauty pageant. Or his defenses of Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly in their sexual harassment scandals. You see a pattern here? It is obvious that he basically views women as meat and frequently attacks women by way of their (mostly imagined) biology.
    For that matter, Trump also has frequently attacked men in ways that disparage women. For example, referring to his opponents as "$#@!" and so forth.
    I'm just trying to help you grasp what sexism is here because you seem to have the wrong impression.
    Maybe I'm too old but I think I know what sexism is and I'm just not buying into today's 'everything is ___ist' mentality. (insert: rac or gay or sex or whatever in the line) I am very very pro equality. Extremely, ardent, virulent pro-equality. For the record, though, I do think that Trump can be a pig and disrespectful and sexist in what he says. (I do think he largely says it now to get the media and the liberals going nuts) The alternative was catastrophically worse, IMHO. As I've said a million times -- it was about the Court for me and we've gotten 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    *shrugs* Okay. It's not taken personally then. But I also think you're broad-brushing even when it comes to more mainstream liberals.
    Maybe I am, but I only go by what I see.
    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Incidentally, not all leftists or feminists consider ourselves liberals. For my part, when I hear the term "liberalism" my instinct is to the think of neoliberalism, which is something I don't identify myself with. You may be intending the term in a more broad-brushing way that covers the entire political left, but we don't all view it that way or associate ourselves with that term. (I'm not even really sure that I consider neoliberalism a left wing perspective for that matter.)
    Wait a minute -- all feminists (by definition according to the Democrats) must believe in the right to kill babies (or you are out of the party). I do not know any conservative pro-choice women. So, if by definition you believe in the right to kill a baby (I'm sorry, the right to do with your body as you wish - which includes killing a baby) then you are a liberal. Right?
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    In the past, American conservatives have complained about discrimination against women of a politically conservative bent. They have claimed that feminists only defend liberal, left wing, or other feminist women. And yet...who has it been defending the likes of Megyn Kelly, Gretchen Carlson, and Mika Brzezinski? Feminists. And you know who we've been having to defend these women against? You. Conservative men. Why? Why won't conservative men defend conservative women when they are attacked by the monster in the White House and his army of goons even against sexual harassment and assault? Could it be that conservative-minded men do not actually care about even their own women, but were just using that aforementioned line opportunistically as a talking point in the past?
    The three women you mentioned as being "conservative" are anything but conservative. They are opportunistic empty skirts in heels that will sell their brand to the highest bidder.
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    ...Incidentally, not all leftists or feminists consider ourselves liberals. For my part, when I hear the term "liberalism" my instinct is to the think of neoliberalism, which is something I don't identify myself with. You may be intending the term in a more broad-brushing way that covers the entire political left, but we don't all view it that way or associate ourselves with that term. (I'm not even really sure that I consider neoliberalism a left wing perspective for that matter.)
    Right, as demonstrated, some feminists are conservative and pro-life. I mean, as long as we ignore your broad-brushing all feminists as pro-choice.

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    I would like to know when will feminists stand-up to Sharia law and the mistreatment of Muslim women and girls in Islamic and non-majority Islamic countries?

    A subject not broached by many admitted feminists and their male supporters.
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    I would like to know when will feminists stand-up to Sharia law and the mistreatment of Muslim women and girls in Islamic and non-majority Islamic countries?

    A subject not broached by many admitted feminists and their male supporters.
    The progressive, liberal SJW's should be all over it!
    There is no God but Resister and Refugee is his messenger’.

    Book of Democrat Things, Chapter 1:1






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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    I would like to know when will feminists stand-up to Sharia law and the mistreatment of Muslim women and girls in Islamic and non-majority Islamic countries?

    A subject not broached by many admitted feminists and their male supporters.
    Go to http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...ight=feminists, listen to the video from about the 5:50 mark, when Peterson talks about the alliance between feminists and radical Islamists.


    While searching for that I found this thread, http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...inist-Movement, posted around the time Mary Tyler Moore died. She was a feminist of the old school but completely rejected the change in the feminist movement in the 70s toward this pro-choice stance intollerant of any other. Anyway, there's an article posted there on "How Abortion Activists Hijacked The Women’s Movement."

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    DGUtley wrote:
    Wait a minute -- all feminists (by definition according to the Democrats) must believe in the right to kill babies (or you are out of the party).
    I'm not a Democrat, but just the same I can see that you're not serious, so I think we're done here.

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