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Thread: Japan and Europe counter Trump with colossal trade deal

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    They can make all the trade deals they want. None of them can thrive without americans buying their products
    While it's certainly true that enacting protectionist measures against Americans hurts their own economies, the same is true of our own protectionist policies. The basic economic reality is that trade materially benefits both parties, so when the government intervenes and attempts to restrict trade, both sides are harmed as a result. The fact that trade is happening across national boundaries as opposed to state or local boundaries does not change the economic reality at the heart of trade, which is why no politician, Trump included, should try to "fix" the situation. The last thing Americans need is for the political system to manage trade between free people.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 07-09-2017 at 05:19 AM.
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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crepitus View Post
    If you're talking about the China deal I don't regard letting their diseased meat products into the US as a win.
    Not that I doubt there are diseased meat products in China, but this seems like one of those extremely vague and sensational things people say that fall apart under scrutiny.

    For example, could we not also say that meat products in America are also "diseased"? Or, more precisely, that SOME meat products in America are diseased? Because that's what you really meant when you generalized about China's meat products, right? That SOME meat products in China are diseased? Surely you did not meant to imply that ALL of China's meat products are diseased?

    So if we accept the very reasonable premise that all countries, including America, produce SOME meat products that are "diseased", we must conclude that "diseased meat" is not the sole or overriding concern with regards to international trade of meat products. This is especially true when you consider the massive scale at which such trade operates. Speaking purely theoretically, would importing such meat be a "win" if only five percent of the total import was "diseased" in some way? I'm only asking this question to illustrate that there is indeed a dilemma and that the question of a "win" or "loss" for America is not nearly as simplistic as you're making it out to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leekohler2 View Post
    Why wouldn't they?
    Because it would hurt their economies. But that assumes their primary concern is the economic well-being of their countries, which seems an unreasonable assumption given that they are politicians.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Not that I doubt there are diseased meat products in China, but this seems like one of those extremely vague and sensational things people say that fall apart under scrutiny.For example, could we not also say that meat products in America are also "diseased"? Or, more precisely, that SOME meat products in America are diseased? Because that's what you really meant when you generalized about China's meat products, right? That SOME meat products in China are diseased? Surely you did not meant to imply that ALL of China's meat products are diseased?
    So if we accept the very reasonable premise that all countries, including America, produce SOME meat products that are "diseased", we must conclude that "diseased meat" is not the sole or overriding concern with regards to international trade of meat products. This is especially true when you consider the massive scale at which such trade operates. Speaking purely theoretically, would importing such meat be a "win" if only five percent of the total import was "diseased" in some way? I'm only asking this question to illustrate that there is indeed a dilemma and that the question of a "win" or "loss" for America is not nearly as simplistic as you're making it out to be.
    We should keep in mind that America has different STANDARDS on our products. Products being imported from other countries must meet our standards before they can be sold here in America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    We should keep in mind that America has different STANDARDS on our products. Products being imported from other countries must meet our standards before they can be sold here in America.
    Maybe they should. Or maybe those standards are overly strict or not really effective. We shouldn't just assume that US government "standards" on meat are always reasonable or effective. It is entirely possible (and even probable) that such standards are a net negative due to lost trade opportunities and increased production costs. I feel like people tend to gloss over those types of costs because they cannot be seen easily. A good that was never produced or a service that was never offered isn't as visceral or perceptible as a person who gets sick from something they ate. Yet lost trade opportunities and increased productions costs can significantly harm a society. One of the biggest reasons why the Soviet Union and its clients experienced such severe and prolonged economic difficulties was because their economies were so heavily regulated and "standardized" by their governments. Not only did this increase poverty, it wasn't even effective on net at making things any safer. If anything, the decreased economic prosperity undoubtedly made things less safe for people living in those societies. If the founding fathers taught us anything, it is that we must be very suspicious of governments who try to "save" and "protect" people by giving themselves more power and money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    I think the more important point here is that the other nations are starting to work together more aggressively because they have a common enemy in Trump. Whether or not their efforts are successful remains to be seen but it certainly is cause for pause (ooooo - that rhymed!).
    So....hmm.....these nations are then acting on their own self interests? Trade deals outside say the TPP or a Paris Climate Accord....these two nation(s)..the European Union and Japan for example....sit down and talk directly agreeing to a bilateral trade agreement rather than a multilateral agreement with an international flair? Kinda of like a 'Japan First' policy if you're Japanese or Europe First strategy if you're a Euro leader.

    Maybe we should try their tack, Trish. Have an America First policy, wouldn't that be refreshing?

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crepitus View Post
    If you're talking about the China deal I don't regard letting their diseased meat products into the US as a win.
    Certainly not; but I have no plans to eat Chinese meat whatever the cost.
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    Lots of what America produces is pure junk. We should not be under the impression that our products will automatically be superior to Chinese ones. Americans put all sorts of crap in and on their bodies that is made in western countries. Meanwhile, Chinese people are, on average, getting healthier (as measured by their increased life expectancy), and this wouldn't be possible if their food supply was, on average, not healthy. I'm certain many Chinese products are comparable to similar American products in terms of their quality as well as their price. That isn't to say you can blindly consume products from China, because you can't, but that is true of a product no matter where it comes from. People should educated themselves about the things they consume regardless of where it is manufactured.
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    The Chinese were importing pet food into America that had some posionous ingredient. And then that had that dry walk issue....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The Chinese were importing pet food into America that had some posionous ingredient. And then that had that dry walk issue....
    Like I said, there is no doubt that Chinese industry will produce inferior or dangerous products sometimes. But the same can be said about American industry. A product should be judged individually. Granted, part of assessing a product on an individual basis will naturally include some thought about its origin, but that should not be the sole or overriding criteria in determining whether or not to consume it.
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