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Thread: Does Capitalism Exploit Workers?

  1. #11
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    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I think that's something different, having to do with land, and who owns it or, as I see it, has rights to its use.
    Ownership and property rights are central to capitalism.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by texan View Post
    No . People exploit people. Do guns kill people?
    OK, so rephrase, does a capitalist exploit workers? Does the owner of a business exploit his workers? If I own a business and I agree to hire you and you agree to work for me, at an agreed upon wage, am I exploiting you?

    Marx would say yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Ownership and property rights are central to capitalism.
    Right. But you don't need a state to protect them. Many American Indian tribes owned that land communally and would parcel out rights to pieces of land to families who would keep those rights for as long as they used the land, and when it fell into disuse, it was reallotted to another family. There was no state to do thxis, it was just the tradition.

    Again, though, the topic here is exploitation of workers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Right. But you don't need a state to protect them.
    You do under capitalism, which was my point.

    Many American Indian tribes owned that land communally and would parcel out rights to pieces of land to families who would keep those rights for as long as they used the land, and when it fell into disuse, it was reallotted to another family. There was no state to do thxis, it was just the tradition.
    That wasn't capitalism.

    Again, though, the topic here is exploitation of workers.
    I know. And I believe capitalism's ownership framework is exploitative, which would necessarily extend to workers.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You do under capitalism, which was my point.



    That wasn't capitalism.



    I know. And I believe capitalism's ownership framework is exploitative, which would necessarily extend to workers.

    It was property rights.


    How? Again, if you voluntarily agree to work for me for a wage, how am I exploiting you?

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    True socialism and communism exploit the worker where they have no incentive to do more. Those on top own those on the bottom and there is no hope for a brighter future. Worker class is worker class.

    EDIT: To answer the OP, NO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It was property rights.
    But not capitalist property rights.

    How?
    By allowing individuals to appropriate resources that would otherwise be held in common. Land, for example.

    Again, if you voluntarily agree to work for me for a wage, how am I exploiting you?
    You're not. But if you use the state to appropriate more than your fair share of nature's bounty, which capitalism allows and even encourages, then you are exploiting me.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    But not capitalist property rights.



    By allowing individuals to appropriate resources that would otherwise be held in common. Land, for example.



    You're not. But if you use the state to appropriate more than your fair share of nature's bounty, which capitalism allows and even encourages, then you are exploiting me.


    OK, I give, and have no idea how you're defining capitalism.


    By allowing individuals to appropriate resources that would otherwise be held in common. Land, for example.
    If it's held in common then no one is exploited, just the common. Without private rights to use of the land, you then end up with a tragedy of the commons.


    You're not. But if you use the state to appropriate more than your fair share of nature's bounty, which capitalism allows and even encourages, then you are exploiting me.
    That I would agree with, but it wasn't mentioned in my hypothetical, nor anywhere in the OP here.


    Wish I had kept it, an article demonstrating how socialism, on a large, centralized planning scale, actually resulted in exploitation of the workers. But again, the exploitation is in a statist system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    People exploit people, no ism does that on its own.
    When you voluntarily exchange a specific skill for remuneration, where is the exploitation?
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
    When you voluntarily exchange a specific skill for remuneration, where is the exploitation?
    Duress, class collusion

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