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Thread: The Southern Slave Economy Was Anti-Capitalistic

  1. #21
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    There seem to be a number of arguments on this according to Capitalism and Slavery in the United States. Slavery as Inefficient was the prevailing argument right up to the 1950s. Beginning in the 1950s the cliometricians argued slavery was productive. There are some who shift focus from agriculture to slave trade. In the 80s and 90s the Marxists argued slavery lacks Wage Labor so can't be capitalism. As one can see it depends on how you define capitalism. Recent trends argue capitalism could not have developed without slavery.

    If slavery was productive, then why did the cotton gin become so popular? Automation is always more efficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    But it wasn't efficient. It couldn't produce the war machine the North could to keep on fighting.
    Today the South is booming, between the A/C and a malaria-free landacape, no brainer not to be in Buffalo, right? But the climate impediment to development was quite real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    There seem to be a number of arguments on this according to Capitalism and Slavery in the United States. Slavery as Inefficient was the prevailing argument right up to the 1950s. Beginning in the 1950s the cliometricians argued slavery was productive. There are some who shift focus from agriculture to slave trade. In the 80s and 90s the Marxists argued slavery lacks Wage Labor so can't be capitalism. As one can see it depends on how you define capitalism. Recent trends argue capitalism could not have developed without slavery.

    If slavery was productive, then why did the cotton gin become so popular? Automation is always more efficient.
    But labor was still needed, and by using slaves, the South really does extract value from them over and beyond what they could with free labor. Marxian exploitation theory is correct in that instance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newpublius View Post
    But labor was still needed, and by using slaves, the South really does extract value from them over and beyond what they could with free labor. Marxian exploitation theory is correct in that instance.
    Sure, labor was extracted. But it was not efficient. Exploitation is inefficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newpublius View Post
    Today the South is booming, between the A/C and a malaria-free landacape, no brainer not to be in Buffalo, right? But the climate impediment to development was quite real.
    That happened after WWII when workers left the North a rust-belt for work in the rising South.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newpublius View Post
    The plantation is capital. Its productivity was enhanced, doubled even, by capital, ie the gin. It fueled the expansion of industry on an international level, complete with cotton factors (other things too I might add) and commodity exchanges.

    In 1860, the economic value of slaves in the United States exceeded the invested value of all of the nation's railroads, factories, and banks combined.
    So what?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I think D is correct, seeking profit prevails in all societies, even socialist and communist, so I don't think that's a sufficient criterion.
    Not all but it does seem to be a feature of more complex societies regardless of time or place.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Not all but it does seem to be a feature of more complex societies regardless of time or place.
    Take the first division of labor and specialization between men and women. They traded with each other to mutual benefit, or profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Take the first division of labor and specialization between men and women. They traded with each other to mutual benefit, or profit.
    Trade need not be for profit and mutual benefit need not entail it. That said, I don't see how characterizing the antebellum south as capitalist merely because of the profit motive is at all helpful even if your goal is to attack capitalism. You're just draining the term of meaning.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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