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Thread: The First World War Ended Today

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    The First World War Ended Today

    Too many of us, it's a black and white war and part of the remote past, however, it was not the Second World War but the first that largely shaped the modern world. It ended the long century of optimism and faith in human progress, transformed the political landscape of Europe, and gave birth to the ideas that dominated the 20th Century.

    The First World War has long been a favorite period of mine and it ended today, November 11, 1918.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    For me the most interesting part is the interwar period. It was like a test period for liberalism, and it failed in Eastern Europe. It was also a good test period for the Welfare state, and I think we learned from Weimar that high levels of social spending are impossible to sustain.
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    For me, it's the early period of the war: the colorful uniforms, the optimism, the relief in some quarters that war (something dynamic that promised answers) had finally come.

    I hear you. Interwar Germany is fascinating but France is pretty interesting too. I've developed an interest in the French radical right.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    For me, it's the early period of the war: the colorful uniforms, the optimism, the relief in some quarters that war (something dynamic that promised answers) had finally come.

    I hear you. Interwar Germany is fascinating but France is pretty interesting too. I've developed an interest in the French radical right.
    Obviously you are a fan of De Benoist. I've looked him up a little, but he is apparently part of a French new right movement that seems completely independent of any of the American New Right movements?

    Yeah, I think a lot of Eastern Europe hoped to gain a lot from the War in terms of independence and sovereignty, is that what you mean by the "relief"? It seems like they got their independence, but it turned out to be more than they could handle for the most part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    For me the most interesting part is the interwar period. It was like a test period for liberalism, and it failed in Eastern Europe. It was also a good test period for the Welfare state, and I think we learned from Weimar that high levels of social spending are impossible to sustain.
    Some people learned. The left refuses to learn from history because they are always smarter than those who are actually capable of learning.
    Democrats believe that "politics is war by other means." And they are at war with America, with common sense and even common decency. Those who would mount an effective opposition had better have a high tolerance for slime, slander and abuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Obviously you are a fan of De Benoist. I've looked him up a little, but he is apparently part of a French new right movement that seems completely independent of any of the American New Right movements?

    Yeah, I think a lot of Eastern Europe hoped to gain a lot from the War in terms of independence and sovereignty, is that what you mean by the "relief"? It seems like they got their independence, but it turned out to be more than they could handle for the most part.
    I prefer the European right. It is closer to my way of thinking. There was always something unsatisfying about the American right but prior to late 20s I had been exposed to nothing else. I've moved a little left economically and I'm anti-liberal by which I mean anti-modern I find modern politics (classical liberalism and and all forms of progressivism) increasingly repulsive. Yes, the Europan right would think of the American right as quintessentially liberal. Eurooeans use "liberal" like we use conservative. It means the same thing (i.e. free market capitalism, economism etc.)

    By relief I mean there was a great deal of anxiety in Europe because of the rapid pace of political, economic and swocial change in the late 19th Century.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Agravan View Post
    Some people learned. The left refuses to learn from history because they are always smarter than those who are actually capable of learning.
    To be clear, when I say "liberalism" I'm talking about the more common use of the word, not the American sense of the word, which usually refers to the politics of Social Democrats, Progressives and Marxists. But you're right, it doesn't seem that the left anywhere has taken the lesson of Weimar Germany completely to heart. That's partly because the Weimar republic exercised welfare to extremes, and because the system was an ad hoc combination of state run welfare working together with private religious and secular charities (mostly religious, though).

    I'm reading David Crew's "Germans on Welfare: From Weimar to Hitler" right now actually. Great stuff, but it gets a little bit nitty gritty into the details and case studies like Hamburg. I think you gotta love policy to enjoy a book like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agravan View Post
    Some people learned. The left refuses to learn from history because they are always smarter than those who are actually capable of learning.
    That's not the liberalism he means. he means democracy and representaive government.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I prefer the European right. It is closer to my way of thinking. There was always something unsatisfying about the American right but prior to late 20s I had been exposed to nothing else. I've moved a little left economically and I'm anti-liberal by which I mean anti-modern I find modern politics (classical liberalism and and all forms of progressivism) increasingly repulsive. Yes, the Europan right would think of the American right as quintessentially liberal. Eurooeans use "liberal" like we use conservative. It means the same thing (i.e. free market capitalism, economism etc.)
    So when you talk about the European right not being liberal, that's conceptually confusing for me. I generally think of the right as supportive of liberal market polices. You're saying the European right isn't in favor of market liberalism?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    So when you talk about the European right not being liberal, that's conceptually confusing for me. I generally think of the right as supportive of liberal market polices. You're saying the European right isn't in favor of market liberalism?
    New Rightists especially hate liberalism. They consider liberalism the dominant ideology of the modern world while progressivism is just a form liberalism takes.

    I often use this example: If you were to ask a continental European to name a famous liberal politician of the last 40 years they would be likely to say Reagan or Thatcher.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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