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Thread: The First World War Ended Today

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    T
    The First World War has long been a favorite period of mine and it ended today, November 11, 1918.

    Nice to have confirmation that you have periods .
    i think we can deduce quite a bit from that .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    None taken. I'm sympathetic to fascism. I don't take that as an insult. It's only insulting when people use it as an excuse to dismiss your ideas without honestly engaging them.

    As for the New Rightists, they explicitly reject racism, intolerance, and aggression. I've seen no one advocate a cult of virility or glorify war. In fact, they are largely critical of the US and its efforts to maintain its empire. Neither do they advocate an authoritarian model of government but rather a decentralized European federalism.
    Glad you don't take that as an insult. Comparisons to Fascism can be taken the wrong way because Hitler is usually the first thing to come to mind, but in reality it seems European Fascism has had an enduring impact on modern political thought and it is present to some degree in both American political. parties.

    Ah, so there is some support in the New Right movement for policies that we could compare to softer fascist regimes, but they take different attitudes toward race and foreign policy. But I gather they're not strictly anti interventionist either, then? And if there is any immediate need in Europe it's for decentralization.
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    Carygrant has been banned from this thread

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    Last edited by Captain Obvious; 11-12-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Glad you don't take that as an insult. Comparisons to Fascism can be taken the wrong way because Hitler is usually the first thing to come to mind, but in reality it seems European Fascism has had an enduring impact on modern political thought and it is present to some degree in both American political. parties.

    Ah, so there is some support in the New Right movement for policies that we could compare to softer fascist regimes, but they take different attitudes toward race and foreign policy. But I gather they're not strictly anti interventionist either, then? And if there is any immediate need in Europe it's for decentralization.
    Your average person knows virtually nothing about fascism. It's a label they apply to things they don't like. As a historian (albeit we're amateurs) I'm sure you find that as offensive as I do.

    no, I wouldn't say they are strictly anti-interventionist but their primary concern was the liberation of Europe from what they saw (justifiably, IMO) as a de facto American occupation during the Cold War. European states are still seen as vassals of the US who are dominated politically and culturally. There is quite a bit of truth to that. Moreover, Europe is in no position to e aggressive internationally at this time ad I see only modest calls for a European defense force.

    As for race, many of them racialists to some degree but not racists. Let a thousand flowers loom but each in it's own plot, so to speak. I agree 100%.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    I agree. The US was hyper interventionist in Europe. Not sure whether we still try to exercise the same amount of influence in Europe today. Mostly I avoid reading too much about current foreign policy since it only frustrates me.

    I think a high school politics class should do more than just touch on liberal vs conservative. My AP class did a little better by introducing us to the two dimensional tests, but the fact that most Americans don't understand fascism makes the term easily exploited by politicians on both sides of the aisle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    I agree. The US was hyper interventionist in Europe. Not sure whether we still try to exercise the same amount of influence in Europe today. Mostly I avoid reading too much about current foreign policy since it only frustrates me.

    I think a high school politics class should do more than just touch on liberal vs conservative. My AP class did a little better by introducing us to the two dimensional tests, but the fact that most Americans don't understand fascism makes the term easily exploited by politicians on both sides of the aisle.
    We've transformed the European elite. It's firmly Americanized. The disagreements we have may seem serious at times but look at the multiculturalism, immigration, and hyper-individualism among much else being promoted in Europe. That's American influence. Europe's elite promotes American ideals. The free market is also widely accepted in Europe as well. It's funny to hear people talk about us becoming more like western Europe. Overall, they've become more like us.

    Yes, it does but somehow I doubt those pols themselves know what they're talking about.

    For me, the America left and right argue over details. They share the same liberal ideology.
    Last edited by Mister D; 11-12-2012 at 07:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    We've transformed the European elite. It's firmly Americanized. The disagreements we have may seem serious at times but look at the multiculturalism, immigration, and hyper-individualism among much else being promoted in Europe. That's American influence. Europe's elite promotes American ideals. The free market is also widely accepted in Europe as well. It's funny to hear people talk about us becoming more like western Europe. Overall, they've become more like us.

    Yes, it does but somehow I doubt those pols themselves know what they're talking about.

    For me, the America left and right argue over details. They share the same liberal ideology.
    Funny how two people can look at the same picture and see two totally different things. I don't think that either party of the left or right in America is liberal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Funny how two people can look at the same picture and see two totally different things. I don't think that either party of the left or right in America is liberal.
    I'm sure the fascists and communists would have balked at any suggestion of ideological similarity but I think we can both agree those similarities exist on the level of ideas and much more so on the level of day to day reality (i.e. how the state actually functioned). This is why I like coming here. I'm off to bed soon but I will chime in come morning. I will go into detail regarding the New Right's view of modern politics.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I'm sure the fascists and communists would have balked at any suggestion of ideological similarity but I think we can both agree those similarities exist on the level of ideas and much more so on the level of day to day reality (i.e. how the state actually functioned). This is why I like coming here. I'm off to bed soon but I will chime in come morning. I will go into detail regarding the New Right's view of modern politics.
    You're right. They did share a lot in common, but moreso in application than in theory. I'd hate to be any one who isn't part of the political or ethnic majority in either regime. Markets reward talent, skills and ability, among other things. When the state runs the market, it rewards ideological purity and political convenience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    U

    You're right. They did share a lot in common, but moreso in application than in theory. I'd hate to be any one who isn't part of the political or ethnic majority in either regime. Markets reward talent, skills and ability, among other things. When the state runs the market, it rewards ideological purity and political convenience.
    unfortunately to some extend political conveniences seem to mix with the former a bit too much among other problems. At the end of the day Markets and Politics can rarely separate from one another completely, it is more or less only a matter of degree.

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