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Thread: The Lost Cause Rides Again

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    The Lost Cause Rides Again

    The Lost Cause Rides Again

    HBO’s prospective series Confederate will offer an alternative history of post-Civil War America. It will ask the question, according to co-creator David Benioff, “What would the world have looked like … if the South had won?” A swirl of virtual protests and op-eds have greeted this proposed premise. In response, HBO has expressed “great respect” for its critics but also said it hopes that they will “reserve judgment until there is something to see.”

    This request sounds sensible at first pass. Should one not “reserve judgment” of a thing until after it has been seen? But HBO does not actually want the public to reserve judgment so much as it wants the public to make a positive judgment. A major entertainment company does not announce a big new show in hopes of garnering dispassionate nods of acknowledgement. HBO executives themselves judged Confederate before they’d seen it—they had to, as no television script actually exists. HBO hoped to communicate that approval to its audience through the announcement. And had that communication been successful, had Confederate been greeted with rapturous anticipation, it is hard to imagine the network asking its audience to tamp down and wait.

    HBO’s motives aside, the plea to wait supposes that a problem of conception can be fixed in execution. We do not need to wait to observe that this supposition is, at best, dicey. For over a century, Hollywood has churned out well-executed, slickly produced epics which advanced the Lost Cause myth of the Civil War. These are true “alternative histories,” built on “alternative facts,” assembled to depict the Confederacy as a wonderland of virtuous damsels and gallant knights, instead of the sprawling kleptocratic police state it actually was. From last century’s The Birth of a Nation to this century’s Gods and Generals, Hollywood has likely done more than any other American institution to obstruct a truthful apprehension of the Civil War, and thus modern America’s very origins. So one need not wait to observe that any foray by HBO into the Civil War must be met with a spirit of pointed inquiry and a withholding of all benefit of the doubt.

    Skepticism must be the order of the day. So that when Benioff asks “what would the world have looked like … if the South had won,” we should not hesitate to ask what Benioff means by “the South.” He obviously does not mean the minority of white Southern unionists, who did win. And he does not mean those four million enslaved blacks, whom the Civil War ultimately emancipated, yet whose victory was tainted. Comprising 40 percent of the Confederacy’s population, this was the South’s indispensable laboring class, its chief resource, its chief source of wealth, and the sole reason why a Confederacy existed in the first place. But they are not the subject of Benioff’s inquiry, because he is not so much asking about “the South” winning, so much as he is asking about “the white South” winning.

    ...

    HBO’s ‘Confederate’ is going to cause a lot of argument largely based on the above speculation which is typical to the social justice previews but mild in comparison to some of the outlandishness argued. There is no real story, no script, so why the fuss in that direction?

    There's just the premise the South won the Civil War.

    But what would that have meant? Would the South have conquered and ruled over the North? I don't think so. Sure, Lee invaded as a far as Gettysburg, but to me the South was not about conquering or ruling or preserving the union but disbanding it, going their seperate way and preserving a way of life. There would have been two counties, and who knows how they might have spintered. Would slavery have continued? For a while. But automation was already making slavery too costly imo, and would have replaced it.

    And then there's the premise too of another pending Civil War. So my speculation doesn't match D.B. Weiss and David Benioff's.

    But I have no doubt HBO’s ‘Confederate’ is going to cause a lot of argument.

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    Perhaps if the country wasn't so divided it may have been an interesting perspective but I don't imagine some citizens are going to see this as a harmless experiment born out of curiosity.

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    Books and movies depicting an alternate history in which the Axis powers won WWII have been popular practically since that war's real world conclusion, with relatively little controversy (if you don't count the ill-conceived Nazi emblems splashed across the interiors of New York subway cars to promote HBO's Man in the High Castle). It seems plain that the difference between that and the "South winning" concept, the single element that makes the one a fairly safe (if somewhat overused) offering and the other a potential lightning rod, lies in the possibility that it may displease those who believe that (1) the Confederates were uniformly evil monsters with no redeeming human qualities, and (2) that the Civil War, with it's 620,000 dead, was the only way that human slavery on this continent could have been made to end. In other words, it's a matter of race and ideology, in ways that other such scenarios are not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    Perhaps if the country wasn't so divided it may have been an interesting perspective but I don't imagine some citizens are going to see this as a harmless experiment born out of curiosity.
    Oh of course not, some, many are going to use it to bring into it their views and agendas on race and ideology.

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    The last time I watched HBO was the last segment of the Soprano's. I dont know anyone literally that pays to have HBO anymore.

    I dont watch any alternate history anything all they are is some creators wet dream of how they wanted it to be or to mold and indoctrinate social thinking.

    Id bet a donut that this HBO show does not in anyway show that it have anything positive if the south had won.

    How do you learn from history when the left keeps trying to change it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Books and movies depicting an alternate history in which the Axis powers won WWII have been popular practically since that war's real world conclusion, with relatively little controversy (if you don't count the ill-conceived Nazi emblems splashed across the interiors of New York subway cars to promote HBO's Man in the High Castle). It seems plain that the difference between that and the "South winning" concept, the single element that makes the one a fairly safe (if somewhat overused) offering and the other a potential lightning rod, lies in the possibility that it may displease those who believe that (1) the Confederates were uniformly evil monsters with no redeeming human qualities, and (2) that the Civil War, with it's 620,000 dead, was the only way that human slavery on this continent could have been made to end. In other words, it's a matter of race and ideology, in ways that other such scenarios are not.
    They are popular and most strain credulity. For instance, a Nazi victory in WW2 which was definitely possible at different times earlier in the conflict would be extremely unlikely to see Axis occupation of the United States.

    Lkkewise, Confederate victory scenarios also almost invariably seem to hypothesize that slavery would still be legal. Given the example of Brazil, this is also extremely unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newpublius View Post
    They are popular and most strain credulity. For instance, a Nazi victory in WW2 which was definitely possible at different times earlier in the conflict would be extremely unlikely to see Axis occupation of the United States.

    Lkkewise, Confederate victory scenarios also almost invariably seem to hypothesize that slavery would still be legal. Given the example of Brazil, this is also extremely unlikely.

    We argued about that recently, about slavery being economical at the time of the Civil War even with the cotton gin replacing labor. But I don't see how that could be true still over 100 years later.

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    Save your Confederate $ boys! The south shall rise again
    There is no God but Resister and Refugee is his messenger’.

    Book of Democrat Things, Chapter 1:1






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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    We argued about that recently, about slavery being economical at the time of the Civil War even with the cotton gin replacing labor. But I don't see how that could be true still over 100 years later.
    Well I feek it still could have been profitable for some time, but there were going to be consequences to secession as well which would have made keeping slavery harder. At least while in the Union, the South had some recourse with the Fugitive Slave Act. Without that, slaves can more easily run away. Even with the Fugitive Slave Act, the Upper South was finding it very difficult to keep slaves down.

    In other words, abolition was inexorably creeping southward.

    Proliferation of trains and steamboats make quicker travel away easier too.

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    I have some very racist in-laws. I sat them down and made them watch: White Man's Burden 20 years ago in an effort to try to get them to think things out. Didn't work but the alternative universe thing has been done before.

    Attachment 19142

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_...s_Burden_(film)
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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