John Stossel vs. Noam Chomsky on Venezuela

[Peter1469]

@kilgram, here's Chomsky speaking:



They failed to develop a sustainable economy. Sounding like Trump he talks about trade deficit with China. And finally, the socialists were corrupt.


Question, how does socialism develop a sustainable economy?

Take from the rich?

[Chris]

Spain's economy is growing. It is crowding out the Catalonia independence movement.

Right, but according to Kilgram, it's growing off tourism mainly and that makes it too expensive for workers.

[kilgram]

Spain's economy is growing. It is crowding out the Catalonia independence movement.

Yes, is growing and it is going back to the state pre-crisis. I admit that. In macroeconomics it is growing. It means, that is improving the life of the wealthy and they can spend more and live again over their possibilities.

However the middle class and the working class is poorer than ever. The working class have lost a lot of rights from the beginning of the crisis and there are not signs that the working class even will recover the economical power pre-crisis. So, yes, it is improving for the ones of always, the poweful.

However, the working class is viewing how the acquisitive power is much lower than before. People like me, living in Barcelona has much harder finding a room, even having a higher salary than the average salary in Spain.

Yeah, a growing economy where the inequality has been increased.

Sorry, but no. Spain is not improving.

[kilgram]

Right, but according to Kilgram, it's growing off tourism mainly and that makes it too expensive for workers.

Exactly.

Spain has no industry, at least a strong industry. It lost its opportunity with conservative governments to develop and be a primary power in renewable energies. But the government tried to put all the barriers that it could to this happen.

The problem of the Spanish government and Spanish in many ways that like 2 sayings:
- That the others invent (other countries)
- Up the chains.

These 2 sayings from the time of the absolutist monarchies are very strong in Spanish mentality even today.

[Chris]

Exactly.

Spain has no industry, at least a strong industry. It lost its opportunity with conservative governments to develop and be a primary power in renewable energies. But the government tried to put all the barriers that it could to this happen.

The problem of the Spanish government and Spanish in many ways that like 2 sayings:
- That the others invent (other countries)
- Up the chains.

These 2 sayings from the time of the absolutist monarchies are very strong in Spanish mentality even today.

Manufacting is going to where labor is cheap. In its place is arise a service industry that would include tourism. What Schumpeter called creative-destruction.

[Newpublius]

Exactly.

Spain has no industry, at least a strong industry. It lost its opportunity with conservative governments to develop and be a primary power in renewable energies. But the government tried to put all the barriers that it could to this happen.

The problem of the Spanish government and Spanish in many ways that like 2 sayings:
- That the others invent (other countries)
- Up the chains.

These 2 sayings from the time of the absolutist monarchies are very strong in Spanish mentality even today.

The Chinese invented paper. The work of the goldsmith becomes the work of the tinsmith. I am sure the great people of Spain are capable of inventing of course. But nevertheless think about Spain's population relative to the rest of the world. Its not particularly large of course, so if you pick an invention at random......China, India, USA, Germany.....right? Of course, but Spain will benefit from those inventions as we will benefit from Spain.

#pazparaespana

[Ethereal]

Haha. Ethereal, your jokes are everytime better.

Do I need to remind you how USA destroyed most of the South American economies? Or how USA has destroyed the economies of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and many other places?

Also, do I need to remember you places like Haiti,...?

If "commies" are so bad why Europe is or at least was pretty prosperous before Europe started to believe all the nonsense and bull$#@! said by the liberalism.

Did the USA destroy Greece's economy, too? Did the USA force Spain to amass a 117% debt to GDP ratio? Why do socialists always blame everyone else for their failures?

[kilgram]

Did the USA destroy Greece's economy, too? Did the USA force Spain to amass a 117% debt to GDP ratio? Why do socialists always blame everyone else for their failures?

I remember you that in both cases were conservative governments. So, no it is not socialist failure. It is failure of the conservative government, aka capitalist. Great that you mention that.

In Spain, for example in Madrid capital where the left.governs things are going much better than years of conservative government that increased a lot the debt of the city and thank you to the leftist management it is reduced.

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[Ethereal]

I remember you that in both cases were conservative governments. So, no it is not socialist failure. It is failure of the conservative government, aka capitalist. Great that you mention that.

In Spain, for example in Madrid capital where the left.governs things are going much better than years of conservative government that increased a lot the debt of the city and thank you to the leftist management it is reduced.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

Texas has a conservative government.

Greece is a socialist dump spending itself into oblivion on public sector employees and pensions.

Try to learn the difference.

[William]

I had only just heard of Professor Noam Chomsky, and I had never heard of John Stossel - so I looked them both up.

This is what I learnt about Stossel - he is a Fox consumer television personality, and a libertarian pundit. Very few people outside the USA have heard of John Stossel.

This what I read about Noam Chomsky -

The New York Times - Judged in terms of the power, range, novelty and influence of his thought, Noam Chomsky is arguably the most important intellectual alive.

The Guardian - Chomsky ranks with Marx, Shakespeare and the Bible as one of the 10 most-quoted sources in the humanities - and is the only writer among them still alive.

After he was banned from visiting the country, liberal Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz wrote: Other than Israel, it is hard to imagine any country that would not feel honoured to be visited by Chomsky.

Professor Noam Chomsky recently won the Sydney Peace Prize.

Hmmm - what a problem! Should I be guided by one of the world's leading intellectuals - or a Fox television personality?