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Thread: Let's take ALL the money from the Rich, then what?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Maybe because tax revenue bears so little in relation to spending that the last few years spending has exceeded revenues by over ~$1.3T. This proposed tax increase will make at best $100B. But that assumes that the tax increase won't cause a recession and less tax revenue. Spending is the issue, not raising taxes.

    Plus the push to tax the rich isn't about revenue anyway. Obama has said over and over that raising taxes in a bad economy is bad and can cause a recession. It is about driving a wedge between economic classes. Currently 47% pay no federal income taxes. What will election results look like once 55% don't pay federal income taxes?
    That's a much broader point though, Peter. I was merely commenting on Blad's suggestion that conservatives are institutionalized to believe that taxing the rich is a bad thing - ironically (or pathetically) when most "conservatives" in this sense are middle class at best.

    Your point outlines a flaw in our political system - a number of flaws, the largest one being that consensus is not fiscally responsible.
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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Maybe because tax revenue bears so little in relation to spending that the last few years spending has exceeded revenues by over ~$1.3T. This proposed tax increase will make at best $100B. But that assumes that the tax increase won't cause a recession and less tax revenue. Spending is the issue, not raising taxes.

    Plus the push to tax the rich isn't about revenue anyway. Obama has said over and over that raising taxes in a bad economy is bad and can cause a recession. It is about driving a wedge between economic classes. Currently 47% pay no federal income taxes. What will election results look like once 55% don't pay federal income taxes?
    You can guarantee that as tax rates rise without spending cuts, and we may as well expect spending increases out of this no-budget Senate, that interest rates are going to rise. That will suppress mortgages and that will begin another recessionary spiral.

    Let the good times begin!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    You can guarantee that as tax rates rise without spending cuts, and we may as well expect spending increases out of this no-budget Senate, that interest rates are going to rise. That will suppress mortgages and that will begin another recessionary spiral.

    Let the good times begin!
    Correct. Because under your case, we will have to print money like madmen. That will cause inflation to rise.

    The interesting question is inflation or deflation in the short term. If we don't go too wild I would predict deflation as we saw in 2008-9 (except in food and oil- but that was caused by our failed energy policy). I understand that the established class says deflation is horrible. But to responsible people who save and don't deliberately live pay check to paycheck (meaning not the poor), deflation is much more preferable to inflation.

    An example: let me pay down my mortgage with cheaper USD than what the bank considered when we entered into my mortgage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Correct. Because under your case, we will have to print money like madmen. That will cause inflation to rise.

    The interesting question is inflation or deflation in the short term. If we don't go too wild I would predict deflation as we saw in 2008-9 (except in food and oil- but that was caused by our failed energy policy). I understand that the established class says deflation is horrible. But to responsible people who save and don't deliberately live pay check to paycheck (meaning not the poor), deflation is much more preferable to inflation.

    An example: let me pay down my mortgage with cheaper USD than what the bank considered when we entered into my mortgage.
    Time value of money. That concept isn't factored into indebtedness for a number of reasons - mostly because you are borrowing on a specific value (the property) at that specific point in time. What happens to the value of that property (or the dollar for that matter) is a subsequent event that the borrower must bear.

    The reverse is also true in up-markets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazi99 View Post
    I wonder if Obama has ever thought about a long term solution.
    Of course. His mentor, Rev. Wright, preached "God Damn America". President Obama took that to heart and his long term solution is the destruction of America and the installation of a new socialist dictatorship. It would probably be on the Hugo Chavez model were there are elections but opposition media are seized or the journalists are sent to prison and any opposition is a potential criminal offense. A judge was sent to prison and the workers in the prison felt safe in raping her.

    He stood with a stupid smile while his wife announced that night was the first time in her adult life she'd been proud of the U.S. Have we ever had a President before this one who proudly announced his intention to bankrupt an industry? Have we had a President before this one who said everyone deserves their share with no concern for their contribution or lack thereof? Have we ever had a President who said income inequality needs to be eliminated by government redistribution of wealth?
    Last edited by patrickt; 12-01-2012 at 07:57 AM.

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    An example: let me pay down my mortgage with cheaper USD than what the bank considered when we entered into my mortgage.
    Peter, that's an example of one of the "benefits" of inflation, not deflation. With inflation, you have more dollars but each one buys less, except for the mortgage where the dollar figure is fixed over the life of the mortgage, unless it is relatively short term "balloon" paper.

    You get paid "more" in inflated dollars (worth less) with which you can use to pay back dollars that were worth more when you borrowed them.

    With deflation, you get fewer dollars but again, the dollar amount of the mortgage is fixed, hence you are giving the mortgage holder back dollars that are more valuable than the ones he lent you.

    You are correct that deflation benefits those with substantial savings as those savings buy a lot more. This is how some people with substantial savings got rich on the depression. They accumulated the savings before the deflation, didn't lose them in the crash, and used them to buy severely depreciated assets like real estate, with pre-deflation dollars.
    Last edited by Mainecoons; 12-01-2012 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinnity View Post
    It's just class warfare. Taxes are gonna go up for everyone, and Obama/PelosiCare is one honkin' huge tax bill, btw. People who think it's just gonna be for people making over 250K and idiots and they got conned by the greatest con artist of all time, Barack Hussein Obama.

    Told ya so....TOLD YA SO.....wait and see.
    B.O. is not even that bright, let alone "the greatest con artist of all time". It's just that the sick morons that voted for the idiot are actually that stoopid.

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    No but the people who created him and who run him are definitely very bright and very disengenuous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wazi99 View Post
    Even if we take every penny of what Obama calls the Rich (People making more than 250,00 a year) there is not even enough to run the country for a year with out taxing the middle class.



    Here is the warning that everyone should know. There is always someone worse off than you. Some day they may come for you like you are trying to take from the rich.
    Oh Jeez. Let's take the most extreme scenario that suits the GOP and make it policy.

    I assume a balanced approach of higher taxes and spending cuts (that are already happening) are far too reasonable a proposition for doomsayers.
    Last edited by Awryly; 12-02-2012 at 11:18 PM.
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    There are no spending cuts. Spending is increasing.

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