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Thread: VIP System Town Hall

  1. #21
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    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
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    I think admin should retain control over who is considered to become a VIP, but accept input from the membership before the final decision is made. Now the decision is made public as to who has been selected with no input from the membership at all.

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    Democracy in this context is unavoidably partisan.

    Liberals will vote for liberals; conservatives will vote for conservatives; libertarians will vote for libertarians; etc.

    Granted, there will be some variation, but in general the votes will be along partisan lines.

    This logic also applies to the VIP system itself.

    As the circle of VIPS expands, the more likely it is that partisan concerns will influence the process. I witnessed this firsthand.

    That is why it is better to just leaves thing up to a small group of MODS who consult with ADMIN. That is not to say they will be immune to partisan influences, only that they will be less influenced by it.

    Put another way, the management of the forum should be more technocratic than democratic, which means we shouldn't have a VIP system, let alone a popular vote to decide who becomes a VIP.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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  4. #23
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    The stumbling block with regular member democratic election of VIPs is the partisanship. So maybe that is not such a good idea.

    IMO there is not solution needed for a problem that doesn't exist. I wouldn't wish VIP or Mod status on anyone.
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

    Art thou every retard among us related to thine uncle or mistress by way of moral or illegitimate rendezvous? Thus, we are one side of the other's coin by luck or pluck. - Jimmyz

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    The stumbling block with regular member democratic election of VIPs is the partisanship. So maybe that is not such a good idea.

    IMO there is not solution needed for a problem that doesn't exist. I wouldn't wish VIP or Mod status on anyone.
    MODS have real responsibilities, so I can see why you would say that about them. But VIPS have no real responsibilities or even accountability to the forum. They just talk among themselves in total secret and try to influence the MODS to pass rules and take actions they personally want to see happen. Nobody gets to see how VIPS effect the forum unless a VIP or a former VIP deigns to inform them. At least when MODS do things we can see public announcements and warnings and we can reference the forum rules and guidelines to cross reference their behavior. With VIPS, they have privileges and influence without the corresponding accountability. A VIP is just a regular member who has been given a fancy title and a little extra power. There is simply no reason to keep them around. I mean, can anyone give me a single example of how the VIP system has improved the forum? By definition, you cannot, since everything they do occurs in total secrecy.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    As I asked Cletus, how would you suggest making it more democratic?

    Could you elaborate on your second point?
    I mean this with all respect. If you were really listening to what I was saying you would have asked this question via pm.

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethere View Post
    I mean this with all respect. If you were really listening to what I was saying you would have asked this question via pm.
    In other words, you refuse to defend your arguments in public.

    What a shocker.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    Could you elaborate on your second point?
    That's his way of saying the MODS are unfairly targeting the poor little liberals, despite the fact that more than twice as many conservatives have been banned since MODS started posting that data in August 2016.

    This is what I mean by partisanship influencing the VIP system. There is simply no way to get around it, which is why the system needs to be done away entirely. All it does is give certain members the opportunity to exercise influence over the forum in secret.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    In other words, you refuse to defend your arguments in public.

    What a shocker.
    Lies and spin work better behind the scenes than in the front page.

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  13. #29

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    Again, this is about the VIP system, not about members. Threadbans will follow.

    Coming to you from the depths of inner space
    "For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'." John Greenleaf Whittier

    "Our minds control our bodies. Our bodies control our enemies. Our enemies control jack shit by the time we're done with them." Stick

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    I think admin should retain control over who is considered to become a VIP, but accept input from the membership before the final decision is made. Now the decision is made public as to who has been selected with no input from the membership at all.
    I don't think ADMIN wants to be involved.

    The forum children keep dragging him into $#@!.

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