Members banned from this thread: Safety and Crepitus


User Tag List

Closed Thread
Page 3 of 21 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 203

Thread: VIP System Town Hall

  1. #21
    Points: 214,414, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranOverdrive
    Awards:
    Activity Award
    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    268580
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Bremerton Washington or Sayulita Mexico depending on the time of year.
    Posts
    94,927
    Points
    214,414
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    10,891
    Thanked 37,562x in 28,076 Posts
    Mentioned
    452 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think admin should retain control over who is considered to become a VIP, but accept input from the membership before the final decision is made. Now the decision is made public as to who has been selected with no input from the membership at all.

  2. #22
    Points: 139,361, Level: 89
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 25.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    455818
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    47,987
    Points
    139,361
    Level
    89
    Thanks Given
    9,268
    Thanked 28,542x in 18,111 Posts
    Mentioned
    979 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Democracy in this context is unavoidably partisan.

    Liberals will vote for liberals; conservatives will vote for conservatives; libertarians will vote for libertarians; etc.

    Granted, there will be some variation, but in general the votes will be along partisan lines.

    This logic also applies to the VIP system itself.

    As the circle of VIPS expands, the more likely it is that partisan concerns will influence the process. I witnessed this firsthand.

    That is why it is better to just leaves thing up to a small group of MODS who consult with ADMIN. That is not to say they will be immune to partisan influences, only that they will be less influenced by it.

    Put another way, the management of the forum should be more technocratic than democratic, which means we shouldn't have a VIP system, let alone a popular vote to decide who becomes a VIP.
    Two things awe me most, the starry sky above me and the moral law within me.
    --Immanuel Kant

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Ethereal For This Useful Post:

    Private Pickle (08-31-2017)

  4. #23
    Points: 30,042, Level: 42
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 1,008
    Overall activity: 6.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranYour first Group
    jimmyz's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    176608
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    11,596
    Points
    30,042
    Level
    42
    Thanks Given
    0
    Thanked 6,304x in 4,375 Posts
    Mentioned
    84 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The stumbling block with regular member democratic election of VIPs is the partisanship. So maybe that is not such a good idea.

    IMO there is not solution needed for a problem that doesn't exist. I wouldn't wish VIP or Mod status on anyone.
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

    Art thou every retard among us related to thine uncle or mistress by way of moral or illegitimate rendezvous? Thus, we are one side of the other's coin by luck or pluck. - Jimmyz

  5. #24
    Points: 139,361, Level: 89
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 25.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    455818
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    47,987
    Points
    139,361
    Level
    89
    Thanks Given
    9,268
    Thanked 28,542x in 18,111 Posts
    Mentioned
    979 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    The stumbling block with regular member democratic election of VIPs is the partisanship. So maybe that is not such a good idea.

    IMO there is not solution needed for a problem that doesn't exist. I wouldn't wish VIP or Mod status on anyone.
    MODS have real responsibilities, so I can see why you would say that about them. But VIPS have no real responsibilities or even accountability to the forum. They just talk among themselves in total secret and try to influence the MODS to pass rules and take actions they personally want to see happen. Nobody gets to see how VIPS effect the forum unless a VIP or a former VIP deigns to inform them. At least when MODS do things we can see public announcements and warnings and we can reference the forum rules and guidelines to cross reference their behavior. With VIPS, they have privileges and influence without the corresponding accountability. A VIP is just a regular member who has been given a fancy title and a little extra power. There is simply no reason to keep them around. I mean, can anyone give me a single example of how the VIP system has improved the forum? By definition, you cannot, since everything they do occurs in total secrecy.
    Two things awe me most, the starry sky above me and the moral law within me.
    --Immanuel Kant

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Ethereal For This Useful Post:

    MisterVeritis (08-31-2017)

  7. #25
    Points: 80,727, Level: 69
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 1,723
    Overall activity: 99.4%
    Achievements:
    SocialTagger Second Class50000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Bethere's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    880605
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
    Posts
    19,837
    Points
    80,727
    Level
    69
    Thanks Given
    9,426
    Thanked 5,106x in 4,131 Posts
    Mentioned
    324 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    As I asked Cletus, how would you suggest making it more democratic?

    Could you elaborate on your second point?
    I mean this with all respect. If you were really listening to what I was saying you would have asked this question via pm.

  8. #26
    Points: 139,361, Level: 89
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 25.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    455818
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    47,987
    Points
    139,361
    Level
    89
    Thanks Given
    9,268
    Thanked 28,542x in 18,111 Posts
    Mentioned
    979 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bethere View Post
    I mean this with all respect. If you were really listening to what I was saying you would have asked this question via pm.
    In other words, you refuse to defend your arguments in public.

    What a shocker.
    Two things awe me most, the starry sky above me and the moral law within me.
    --Immanuel Kant

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ethereal For This Useful Post:

    Private Pickle (08-31-2017),resister (08-31-2017)

  10. #27
    Points: 139,361, Level: 89
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 89
    Overall activity: 25.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    455818
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    47,987
    Points
    139,361
    Level
    89
    Thanks Given
    9,268
    Thanked 28,542x in 18,111 Posts
    Mentioned
    979 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Jordan View Post
    Could you elaborate on your second point?
    That's his way of saying the MODS are unfairly targeting the poor little liberals, despite the fact that more than twice as many conservatives have been banned since MODS started posting that data in August 2016.

    This is what I mean by partisanship influencing the VIP system. There is simply no way to get around it, which is why the system needs to be done away entirely. All it does is give certain members the opportunity to exercise influence over the forum in secret.
    Two things awe me most, the starry sky above me and the moral law within me.
    --Immanuel Kant

  11. #28
    Original Ranter
    Points: 280,381, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second Class50000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteranYour first Group
    Captain Obvious's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    771915
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    77,573
    Points
    280,381
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    28,009
    Thanked 38,059x in 25,827 Posts
    Mentioned
    995 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    In other words, you refuse to defend your arguments in public.

    What a shocker.
    Lies and spin work better behind the scenes than in the front page.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Captain Obvious For This Useful Post:

    Cthulhu (08-31-2017),Ethereal (08-31-2017)

  13. #29

    tPF Moderator
    Points: 28,768, Level: 41
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 882
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Hal Jordan's Avatar tPF Moderator
    Karma
    58592
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    8,799
    Points
    28,768
    Level
    41
    Thanks Given
    8,609
    Thanked 6,605x in 4,298 Posts
    Mentioned
    472 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Again, this is about the VIP system, not about members. Threadbans will follow.

    Coming to you from the depths of inner space
    "For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'." John Greenleaf Whittier

    "Our minds control our bodies. Our bodies control our enemies. Our enemies control jack shit by the time we're done with them." Stick

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hal Jordan For This Useful Post:

    DGUtley (08-31-2017),William (08-31-2017)

  15. #30
    Original Ranter
    Points: 280,381, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second Class50000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteranYour first Group
    Captain Obvious's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    771915
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    77,573
    Points
    280,381
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    28,009
    Thanked 38,059x in 25,827 Posts
    Mentioned
    995 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    I think admin should retain control over who is considered to become a VIP, but accept input from the membership before the final decision is made. Now the decision is made public as to who has been selected with no input from the membership at all.
    I don't think ADMIN wants to be involved.

    The forum children keep dragging him into $#@!.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Captain Obvious For This Useful Post:

    Cthulhu (08-31-2017),resister (08-31-2017)

Closed Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Critical Acclaim
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO