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Thread: Axis Victory

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    DonGlock26's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Luckily I only think one of those things is realistic for the Third Reich. Roosevelt was itching to get the US more involved, and the Nazis simply didn't have the resources to out do the British at that time.
    Of course, this all speculation, but without the US in the European war, Germany would not have had to deal with the USAAF in daylight bombing raids, the US Navy, and the UK and USSR would not have received nearly as much aid. The Kriegsmarine's submarine warfare could have been ramped up and put the UK on the ropes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    I guess that makes sense given the desperation the loss caused. But was Hitler destined to fail from the get go? One of his reasons for invading the Soviet Union was to ensure that the Reich would get enough calories to continue the war effort.
    No. Historians agree that he had the power and the resources even if America entered the war. It was the Napolean moment for Third Reich; they truly believed the English would tired and hungry enough would do a Vichy' form of control. When that happened he had to look his ouwn resources and not miss the fact that without Soviet coal they were finished. Even at the retreat from Moscow they were sure they would win.

    They refused accept that after 5,000 years of trying someone had found a way to land a heavy army. And, they, like the Japanese, believed that Pearl Harborf had destroyed the US capabilities to wage war on the Pacific.

    Truthfully, how fast the US retooled and rearmed remains an astonishing feat. That's what killed 'em, but I agree it was Moscow the step too far.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
    IMHO- Stalin would have attacked Germany. He was aggressive and building a powerful army, when Hitler attacked him first. War was inevitable.
    That is a popular POV among German historians.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    No. Historians agree that he had the power and the resources even if America entered the war. It was the Napolean moment for Third Reich; they truly believed the English would tired and hungry enough would do a Vichy' form of control. When that happened he had to look his ouwn resources and not miss the fact that without Soviet coal they were finished. Even at the retreat from Moscow they were sure they would win.

    They refused accept that after 5,000 years of trying someone had found a way to land a heavy army. And, they, like the Japanese, believed that Pearl Harborf had destroyed the US capabilities to wage war on the Pacific.

    Truthfully, how fast the US retooled and rearmed remains an astonishing feat. That's what killed 'em, but I agree it was Moscow the step too far.

    Clearly I'm out of my league here. I usually think of war as the least interesting part of history. The effects of war, either foreign or domestic are much more interesting for me. But I do stand by my earlier statement that the Third Reich couldn't have won once they started Barbarossa so late in the year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Clearly I'm out of my league here. I usually think of war as the least interesting part of history. The effects of war, either foreign or domestic are much more interesting for me. But I do stand by my earlier statement that the Third Reich couldn't have won once they started Barbarossa so late in the year.
    I find war one of the most interesting aspects.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I find war one of the most interesting aspects.
    I think most people do. Who knows. Maybe when I learn more I'll come to enjoy military history more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    I think most people do. Who knows. Maybe when I learn more I'll come to enjoy military history more.
    I also see it as the most interesting part. Conflict is what has propelled human advancement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathaariancode View Post
    Clearly I'm out of my league here. I usually think of war as the least interesting part of history. The effects of war, either foreign or domestic are much more interesting for me. But I do stand by my earlier statement that the Third Reich couldn't have won once they started Barbarossa so late in the year.

    What is fascinating about war in the political sphere is that the difference between direct and indirect cause widens as time goes by, but the distance between the stated "reason" for a war and the real reasons. War is the last stage of diplomacy not a breakdown in diplomacy.

    There are a lot of people who think the Russians would have attacked Germany anyway. I tend to agree, but she would have played a waiting game. They were growing less and less worried about its back door, Asia and was literally drooling about the industry and ore in the west.

    These were communists in their infancy with a man man at the helm. But as it turned out he had some military men who knew what they were doing. But Hitler's invasion came too soon for them. They had lots of coal and ore, but no industry. And they were missing three other rather important ingredients for a good war pie: an army, a navy, and an air force.

    They would have waited.


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    The security of Germany was impossible under the NAZI's and Hitler, whose purpose was to destroy Germany.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    I also see it as the most interesting part. Conflict is what has propelled human advancement.
    What comrad Peter sees is the hallucination that propelled Europe and Russia into devastating wars and vast slaughters over the last 100 years.

    They all were swept away with the idea of "survival of the fittest" in deadly struggle, and how it would enhance the advance of civilization.

    It sets back civilization and human progress. Hopefully Americans will wake up from their collective insanity of believing in war as a virtue, and a necessity before the Furies of Justice come to punish us.
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    Last edited by Ivan88; 11-18-2012 at 10:22 AM.

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