Social Justice

[Perianne]

From Wikipedia:

Social justice is the concept of fair and just relation between the individual and society.

Social justice assigns rights and duties in the institutions of society, which enables people to receive the basic benefits and burdens of cooperation. The relevant institutions often include taxation, social insurance, public health, public school, public services, labor law and regulation of markets, to ensure fair distribution of wealth, and equal opportunity.

If this is an accurate description of social justice, do we need more or less social justice?

[Chris]

"Justice is an attribute of individual action. I can be just or unjust towards my fellow men. But the conception of a social justice; to expect from an impersonal process – which nobody can control – to bring about a just result is not only a meaningless conception, it’s completely impossible." --F. A. Hayek

[Perianne]

"Justice is an attribute of individual action. I can be just or unjust towards my fellow men. But the conception of a social justice; to expect from an impersonal process – which nobody can control – to bring about a just result is not only a meaningless conception, it’s completely impossible." --F. A. Hayek

I agree with that quote, but society, or at least some of society, is trying to force social justice upon us.

To be honest, I am not sure what the boundaries are when speaking of social justice.

[Standing Wolf]

The Hayak quote may not be as nonsensical as it first appears - I'd have to read it in context to know for certain. He appears to be saying that a society's institutions cannot ever be expected to act justly, which of course is patent nonsense. Justice, in the true and traditional sense of that term, is the ultimate aim of any responsible governmental body, and of the human beings who constitute its leadership. Whence some folks have derived the idea that "justice" is a dirty word or an impossible goal - I can't imagine.

[Crepitus]

Social justice used to just mean "the common good" until the conservatives decided to use it as an insult. These days it is a dog whistle term for bigots of all stripes. They use it to denigrate every minority as well as poor people and anyone who supports them.

[Chris]

I agree with that quote, but society, or at least some of society, is trying to force social justice upon us.

To be honest, I am not sure what the boundaries are when speaking of social justice.

Then that's not justice. How is awarding some group some special treatment at the expense of others just? It is imposing the values and virtues of some onto others and violating their rights--actually, it's usually some third group imposing their values and virtues to the benefit of one group and the detriment of other groups.

[Chris]

The Hayak quote may not be as nonsensical as it first appears - I'd have to read it in context to know for certain. He appears to be saying that a society's institutions cannot ever be expected to act justly, which of course is patent nonsense. Justice, in the true and traditional sense of that term, is the ultimate aim of any responsible governmental body, and of the human beings who constitute its leadership. Whence some folks have derived the idea that "justice" is a dirty word or an impossible goal - I can't imagine.

Because you skip right passed "Justice is an attribute of individual action." If I wrong you, do you harm, then you have a right to justice to right the wrong. The purpose of government, be it society or the state, is to protect you and provide justice. All that exists at the level of the individual in society/state.


BTW, here is the full context:

[Perianne]

Then that's not justice. How is awarding some group some special treatment at the expense of others just? It is imposing the values and virtues of some onto others and violating their rights--actually, it's usually some third group imposing their values and virtues to the benefit of one group and the detriment of other groups.

I totally agree.

Thomas Sowell had a great quote:

"Since this is an era when many people are concerned about 'fairness' and 'social justice,' what is your 'fair share' of what someone else has worked for?"

We at work sometimes complain about the large amount of taxes stolen from our paychecks by those who have power over us. The consensus is that the government feels that other people need and deserve what we have worked for more than we do, that is the people who actually worked for it.

[Chris]

Social justice used to just mean "the common good" until the conservatives decided to use it as an insult. These days it is a dog whistle term for bigots of all stripes. They use it to denigrate every minority as well as poor people and anyone who supports them.

I think if justice serve the common good then it is good. Example, SCOTUS decide marriage is a fundamental right, based on more fundamental rights of free association etc, for a single individual case in Kentucky. By rule of law and precedence that single, individual finding extends to everyone.

But social justice is not that. Social justice is an abstraction that sees a wrong supposedly committed against an identity group and fixes it by imposing restrictions on the rights of another identity group. Example, university admissions quotas.

[Chris]

I totally agree.

Thomas Sowell had a great quote:

"Since this is an era when many people are concerned about 'fairness' and 'social justice,' what is your 'fair share' of what someone else has worked for?"

We at work sometimes complain about the large amount of taxes stolen from our paychecks by those who have power over us. The consensus is that the government feels that other people need and deserve what we have worked for more than we do, that is the people who actually worked for it.

I watched this just yesterday.