People are naturally evil

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Everything we call "evil" that people do is an excess of people's biological impulses, which at some point in our biological past, may have aided our survival.

The default state of man is not good, it is savage, and only through self-discipline do people overcome their savage nature.

So if a person wishes to be "good", there has to be some deeper motive than our mere biological impulses, or else when a person refrains from actions such as theft or murder, they're not doing so with any intrinsically "good" motive, they're simply doing what's expedient then and there (refusing to harm others out of fear of the law, not out of any genuine overarching concern for morality or humanity).

But if in another place and time it was expedient to do the opposite, there's no overarching reason why they should not.

[Peter1469]

We recently had a thread on this topic. I disagree. I think most people are good by nature. However, people attracted to power tend to not be good by nature.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

We recently had a thread on this topic. I disagree. I think most people are good by nature. However, people attracted to power tend to not be good by nature.

So you're saying that people exist who aren't attracted to power? Attraction to power seems to be a part of man's inherent nature, assuming that some people are just magically "above" this by virtue of existing seems myopic.

I think people are only good if they have some personal reason to be it, the external world alone doesn't offer any reason to be "good", it just offers incentives "not to be bad" by fear of punishment.

[Peter1469]

So you're saying that people exist who aren't attracted to power? Attraction to power seems to be a part of man's inherent nature, assuming that some people are just magically "above" this by virtue of existing seems myopic.

I disagree. I have traveled more than most. My experience tells me that most people are good. There are of course "bad apples" in every group.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

I disagree. I have traveled more than most. My experience tells me that most people are good. There are of course "bad apples" in every group.

Most people aren't career criminals, but I'd say this doesn't mean they're "good" in some extraordinary way, I'd say this means they're "fence sitters".

[Peter1469]

Most people aren't career criminals, but I'd say this doesn't mean they're "good" in some extraordinary way, I'd say this means they're "fence sitters".

I am OK with disagreement.

Maybe others have opinions to offer.

[Chris]

More materialist nonsense.

People are neither good nor evil but, having knowledge of both, make reasoned moral choices how to act toward others, or rather can but mostly just follow the norms and traditions of their culture.

[Captdon]

Most people aren't career criminals, but I'd say this doesn't mean they're "good" in some extraordinary way, I'd say this means they're "fence sitters".

No. My wife is no fence sitter. She is good-hearted and has never deliberately hurt anyone. Explain that.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

No. My wife is no fence sitter. She is good-hearted and has never deliberately hurt anyone. Explain that.

Well first, I don't believe that anyone has "never deliberately hurt anyone".

[Devil'sAdvocate]

More materialist nonsense.

People are neither good nor evil but, having knowledge of both, make reasoned moral choices how to act toward others,

I didn't say people are "pure evil", I said they're naturally evil, the natural inclination is toward survivalism, using reason to defer this requires willful effort on their part.

or rather can but mostly just follow the norms and traditions of their culture.

Blindly following the norms and traditions of one's culture doesn't make one "good", it's just the herd instinct. One's culture can also be bad. Most Germans supported Hitler and enabled the Holocaust.

My view is that most people at any given time are "bandwagoners" and will follow those who have authority or power whether the power and authority is good or evil.