User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: A Question For The History Buffs

  1. #11
    Points: 18,144, Level: 32
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 406
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranYour first Group
    jimmyz's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    173579
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    7,053
    Points
    18,144
    Level
    32
    Thanks Given
    0
    Thanked 3,274x in 2,314 Posts
    Mentioned
    66 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Being surrounded by oceans isolated the tribes from the rest of the world making the transfer of technology impossible pre-Columbus. If you look at North, Central and South America we are basically one giant island surrounded by oceans.
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

  2. #12
    Points: 390,254, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassYour first GroupOverdrive50000 Experience PointsTagger First ClassVeteran
    Awards:
    Activity Award
    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    387714
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    131,701
    Points
    390,254
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    12,230
    Thanked 35,282x in 26,296 Posts
    Mentioned
    1564 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    http://Trade Among Tribes: Commerce ...opeans Arrived

    ...Eventually, archeologists would confirm that Spanish Diggings is a 400 square-mile series of Paleo-Indian quarries, dating to 10,000 years ago. As Gene Gade, president of the Vore Buffalo Jump Foundation, notes, “It was slowly accepted that the ‘Spanish Diggings’ were, in fact, the work of groups of hunters that had lived in the region and quarried the stone for projectile points, knives, scrapers, and other tools.”

    ...A general misperception of Native American enterprise and trade continues today.

    ...Indians of the southern and northern Plains traded with each other for thousands of years. Flint points 13,000 years old, chiseled from the Texas quarries, have been found in eastern New Mexico. Quarried stone from the Obsidian Cliffs near Mammoth Hot Springs, Wyo. in Yellowstone Park, traveled to the the Ohio River Valley around 100-350 CE.

    While archeological objects abound in Wyoming, the artifacts alone don’t tell the story of pre-settlement trade among nomadic Plains tribes. Moreover, even before the advent of Europeans, tribal boundaries fluctuated with weather, game populations and alliances with other tribes. For example, the Comanche, one of the most entrepreneurial of tribes, once were part of the Shoshone tribe and lived largely in what's now Wyoming. In the middle 18th century they split from the Shoshone and moved south to rule the plains of Texas and Oklahoma.

    Archeological artifacts do suggest, however, that native-to-native trade expanded over time. Emory Dean Keoke and Kay Marie Porterfield, authors of the Encyclopedia of American Indian Contributions to the World, say that the Hohokam tribe, centered in present day Arizona, traded seashells, which they had acquired from the Mojave tribe, for buffalo hides from various southern Plains tribes. “By between 500 and 200 B.C., North American Indians had established a vital network of trade.”

    Those networks weren’t equally distributed, however, on the central plains.

    ...



    ...

    Isolation from trade would have spelled extinction.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

  3. #13
    Points: 39,470, Level: 48
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 680
    Overall activity: 35.0%
    Achievements:
    Created Album picturesYour first GroupTagger First ClassSocial50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Refugee's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    38453
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    PR China
    Posts
    3,703
    Points
    39,470
    Level
    48
    Thanks Given
    552
    Thanked 1,847x in 1,327 Posts
    Mentioned
    132 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hanger4 View Post
    A poster, in another thread, reminded me of a question I've wondered from time to time.

    Why were the indigenous americans many thousands of years behind (Stone Age) the rest of the world's people's ??

    Because they had nothing to compare themselves against and no history of other cultures, unlike the the later European conquests in the rest of the continent. It’s now thought using DNA, that the original native Americans were early nomad Mongolian settlers, coming in across the Bering straits and down through Canada to finally settle in a climate similar to their own.








  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Refugee For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (10-10-2017)

  5. #14
    Points: 2,584, Level: 11
    Level completed: 84%, Points required for next Level: 66
    Overall activity: 33.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points3 months registered
    Kacper's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    444
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,117
    Points
    2,584
    Level
    11
    Thanks Given
    201
    Thanked 434x in 320 Posts
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hanger4 View Post
    A poster, in another thread, reminded me of a question I've wondered from time to time.

    Why were the indigenous americans many thousands of years behind (Stone Age) the rest of the world's people's ??
    Most likely it was due to a lack of necessity. Rome built aqueduct because they were needed. Native Americans didn't need them, for example.

  6. #15
    Points: 16,240, Level: 30
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Newpublius's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    38033
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Riverdale, NJ
    Posts
    5,937
    Points
    16,240
    Level
    30
    Thanks Given
    1,246
    Thanked 3,016x in 2,070 Posts
    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    Being surrounded by oceans isolated the tribes from the rest of the world making the transfer of technology impossible pre-Columbus. If you look at North, Central and South America we are basically one giant island surrounded by oceans.
    Actually a very good point, though we could hypothesize the reverse and say that Europeans were isolated from them, right?

    The question really is one of innovation.

  7. #16
    Points: 16,240, Level: 30
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 210
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Newpublius's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    38033
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Riverdale, NJ
    Posts
    5,937
    Points
    16,240
    Level
    30
    Thanks Given
    1,246
    Thanked 3,016x in 2,070 Posts
    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Most likely it was due to a lack of necessity. Rome built aqueduct because they were needed. Native Americans didn't need them, for example.
    Necessity was a huge part. The Spanish Conquest of the Aztecs happens with the support of the Tlaxcalans btw, the conquistadors really weren't numerous enough yet.

    1. Native American lack of immunity to smallpox
    2. European sailing and navigation
    3. European armor/swords
    4. Firearms

    Spain had been fighting the Moors for hundreds of years during the Reconquista. The route to the east was blocked by the Turks, and actually Venice too....

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Newpublius For This Useful Post:

    Kacper (10-10-2017)

  9. #17
    Points: 58,406, Level: 59
    Level completed: 3%, Points required for next Level: 1,944
    Overall activity: 50.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    hanger4's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    209702
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mountains of WNC
    Posts
    22,890
    Points
    58,406
    Level
    59
    Thanks Given
    11,728
    Thanked 10,811x in 7,344 Posts
    Mentioned
    431 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Most likely it was due to a lack of necessity. Rome built aqueduct because they were needed. Native Americans didn't need them, for example.
    I can see that, as Mr. D alluded to no need for the wheel without a suitable beast of burden. Funny no potters wheel though. They say it predates the wheel.

    Also the beginings of copper metallurgy around the Great Lakes at the approximate time of the beginning Bronze Age, then proof it's gone.
    It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to hanger4 For This Useful Post:

    Kacper (10-10-2017)

  11. #18
    Points: 39,470, Level: 48
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 680
    Overall activity: 35.0%
    Achievements:
    Created Album picturesYour first GroupTagger First ClassSocial50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Refugee's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    38453
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    PR China
    Posts
    3,703
    Points
    39,470
    Level
    48
    Thanks Given
    552
    Thanked 1,847x in 1,327 Posts
    Mentioned
    132 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    The original question implies why didn’t the native Americans advance in the same way the Europeans did and the answer is that there was no need for them to do so. In the same way that the European tribes didn’t advance until the Roman conquests which forced them to do so and brought with them the technology of that era. The native Americans didn’t have or need technology and were stuck in a time warp as it were, until they were ‘discovered’ and eventually someoneone
    found that you could earn more by mass producing and selling, than you could hunting and farming – just as in Europe.

    The native Americans then were only settlers themselves and earn the title ‘native’ by length of time in one place, just as you could now call yourselves native Americans (as being born or coming from that place) and not European settlers, or pilgrims. So the term ‘native’ is in fact a misnomer and they just got there long before you did.









  12. #19
    Original Ranter
    Points: 199,453, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 35.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    388642
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    79,325
    Points
    199,453
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    15,439
    Thanked 25,584x in 18,545 Posts
    Mentioned
    828 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    Being surrounded by oceans isolated the tribes from the rest of the world making the transfer of technology impossible pre-Columbus. If you look at North, Central and South America we are basically one giant island surrounded by oceans.
    That's a pretty big island and pre-Columbian America contained a substantial portion of the global population.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  13. #20
    Points: 7,736, Level: 20
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 14
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Social5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    RollingWave's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    3456
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    979
    Points
    7,736
    Level
    20
    Thanks Given
    105
    Thanked 367x in 292 Posts
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Central / South American civilizations had certain elements that were pretty advanced. but yes the lack of contact with the rest of the world limited their potential greatly. things like the wheel etc were particularly damaging.

    The Euroasian continent on the other hand were connected pretty much right from Antiquity, the role of the nomads on the steppes were instrumental

    ( spread of chariot tech in antiquity, which includes both the wheel and horse domestication )

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to RollingWave For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (10-18-2017)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


Critical Acclaim
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO