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Thread: The Postmodern Assault on Reason

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    The Postmodern Assault on Reason

    The Postmodern Assault on Reason is an interview with Stephen Hicks, author of Explaining Postmodernism: Skepticism and Socialism from Rousseau to Foucault.

    You can associate SJWs, snowflakes, culture warriors, identity politics, Antifa and so much more the left is slipping into with the philosophy defined here and placed in the context of other philosophical movements.

    It's long but I cut it down from text much much longer.

    For an even longer version, you can download Hick's book here: Explaining Postmodernism: Skepticism and Socialism from Rousseau to Foucault (.PDF).

    ...Postmodernism, as a philosophy and as an intellectual movement, is characterized by strong skepticism and subjectivism, and consequently by ethical relativism....

    ...postmodernism holds that our identities are constructed by our race or gender or class identities—that is the collectivized part of it: You exist only as part of a collective group. The zero-sum part is that those groups are in a life-and-death conflict with each other. So, society is made up of blacks versus whites, men versus women, rich versus poor. Generally, the political philosophy of postmodernism is left collectivism. The aesthetic view is very fragmented and rather nihilistic.

    In philosophy, modernism was the great break with the traditional, medieval past, and it came in the seventeenth century, in my judgment. What that break brought was a shift to a naturalistic worldview. Modernism emphasized experience and reason as our fundamental cognitive capacities, as opposed to the medieval emphasis on faith and authority. ...In the value branches of philosophy, you found a much more individualistic approach. In ethics, you found increasing emphasis on the pursuit of happiness as man’s natural birth right, as opposed to the traditional notion that we are here to do our duty. That played out in political revolutions that emphasized individual liberty and the development of freer markets. Modernism’s this-worldly outlook spilled over into the nineteenth century as the flowering of Romanticism, which was a naturalistic and optimistic aesthetic.

    The term “modernism” is broader than “Enlightenment,” which refers to the eighteenth century, when all those modernistic trends—naturalism, optimism about human progress, the institutionalization of science, free markets, and so forth—came to dominate intellectual and cultural life. The counter-Enlightenment began toward the end of the eighteenth century and is essentially a reaction to those trends. Its major proponents are the Swiss-French thinker Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the German thinker Immanuel Kant. What they are concerned with, in different ways, is that the modernist, Enlightenment movement undermines traditional institutions and values. ...in the view of counter-Enlightenment thinkers, the modern emphasis on individualism and on the pursuit of happiness was and is a threat to the traditional ethical values of duty and communal ties.

    ...beginning in the middle of the eighteenth century, the modernist strain of epistemology came under siege from counter-Enlightenment thinkers, who tended to skepticism and relativism. The major early figures here were David Hume, Rousseau, and Kant. The battle was waged throughout the nineteenth century, and the skeptical and relativistic side got the upper hand....

    ...The world of academic philosophy in the twentieth century, at least during its first two-thirds, was characterized by a split between the Continental approach and the Anglo-American approach. If you look at the major figures on the Continental side, particularly by the middle part of the twentieth century, the philosophers everybody is reading are Friedrich Nietzsche, Martin Heidegger, and the existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre. All of them are strongly anti-reason. If you come over to the Anglo-American side of the divide, by the time you get to the middle of the twentieth century, the major intellectuals at that time are also people who are strongly non-rationalistic. Think of the later Wittgenstein and people like Thomas Kuhn and Paul Feyerabend, as well as, to a significantly lesser degree, Karl Popper. Skeptical forms of pragmatism are also prominent in the 1960s. So, by the middle part of the twentieth century, nobody is defending objectivity.

    ...Kant did not abandon reason wholesale. He gave up on the idea of objectivity. But he still maintained the universality of reason. And he maintained that reason was a function of the individual mind. In the subsequent history of philosophy, however, we see that once objectivity was gone, there was no way to maintain the defense of the universality of reason and there was no way to defend the individuality of reason. So, over the course of the next century and a half, up to postmodernism, the implication of Kant’s abandoning objectivity was played out until we got to the postmodernists, who said: “Forget objectivity. Forget individual reason. Forget the universality of reason.” What we got is their subjectivist, relativist, collectivist account of human cognition.

    The dimension or axis that I am using is collectivism, and along that dimension it is possible to speak of right and left versions. Right versions are more nationalistic. Left versions, like Marx’s, are more internationalistic. Another point of variation is religion. Right versions of German collectivism want more of a state-and-religion marriage. Hegel is an example of this. He opposed, on principle, the separation of church and state, so that will put him on the right side. On the left side, Marx is the clearest example, being vigorously atheistic and secular in his orientation.

    ...liberal individualism and collectivist socialism were the two modernist answers to the question of replacing feudalism. But the socialist side of that divide split into two approaches. I’ll give them historical names here. One follows a Rousseauian strategy, and the other follows a Marxist strategy.

    The Rousseauian strategy was the earlier one. It placed its emphasis on passion rather than on reason, and on small tribal groups rather than on large-scale industrial or cosmopolitan enterprises. It also placed more emphasis on staying close to nature than on high-tech industrial development. That movement fed directly into the Romanticism of the nineteenth century and was associated with the right collectivism that I mentioned earlier.

    Marxism had the same communal aims and altruistic themes as the Rousseauians, but it drew more on Enlightenment themes. It had a materialistic metaphysics; it claimed to favor a scientific epistemology of sorts; and it was much friendlier to technological development. And for the next century or so, it was the Marxist version of socialism that dominated socialist discourse. As I see it, Marxism is a compound. It draws on some Enlightenment themes of reason and science and naturalistic metaphysics and so forth. But at the same time it holds onto that traditional altruistic and communalistic ethic. That’s why it turned out to be unstable.

    ...The postmodernists who came to greatest fame in the 1970s, 1980s, and later—people such as Foucault and Derrida and Lyotard and Richard Rorty and so forth—had all been young men in the 1950s and 1960s, and so they lived through the crisis of socialism. All of them were, in their youth, advocates of a fairly far-left politics. ...Now it is being buffeted by theoretical arguments that seem to be unanswerable and by practical events that provide tons of evidence undermining it and showing that the hated capitalist system is superior. How are you going to deal with that crisis, psychologically and intellectually?

    My hypothesis is that postmodernism is the way a significant number of far-left socialists dealt with that crisis.
    Or here's an interview by Jordan B Peterson who is knowledgable in this area and speaks out on it a lot. Alas, the video is an hour and a half, so kind of long too.



    Consider this an extension of Post-Modern Neo-Marxism, which was based largely on Jordan B Peterson video lectures on the topic.
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    Tldr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
    Tldr
    Agree, it is too long for some. And it's political philosophy when so many are interested in partisan politics.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    With the reach of cable and the Internet, the "media" and the left have discovered that truth is not relevant. What we are fed is agenda driven dross. And too many people fall for it.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    It's particularly strong in education, in liberal arts, humanities, literature, sociology, and all those special studies, and that cranks out new educators for high school and lower education.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Good heavens, that was like going down sociology memory lane a quarter of a century ago. All the familiar names cropped back up again – happy days. What he’s trying to say is that postmodernism is simply a continuation of ideological theory in an attempt to explain how society is constructed and the best way forward. Nowadays, psychology and individualism (Foucault’s free will) comes into it, whereas previously it centred on a top down authority approach and it’s
    that which it’s returning to, a subjective belief system, but based on an already prepared script.


    The various isms of the 20th century were simply a reaction to the excesses of capitalism and industrialisation, in the same way that welfare today is the answer to mass-unemployment. Yet whichever ism you take, from the left or right, collectivism is always the central theme and at both ends of the extreme you get the same kind of society.

    Racism (individual or institutional) now replaces the previous witch hunts. Politicians become Gods, political rallies are places of worship and the UN becomes the higher new-age authority. Human Rights Acts provide morals and welfare provides the previous bread for the workers, but at the end of it is the same old collectivised approach which previously held societies together. The SJWs are simply the modern equivalent of the old Crusaders, those who voted for Trump are the unbelievers and the schools and campuses are the equivalent of theological colleges for the new change. What you see on campuses and in the street protests throughout the west is a return to a kind of feudalism, in which the state has replaced the landowners, who now live in gated communities instead of old castles and the serfs get a choice of ‘landowner’ to vote for - and all
    believe.



    The conundrum for the west today is which type of road will socialism take, International or National and what we’re seeing are the results of Internationalism and it isn’t working. Post-industrialisation, with mass transient and unemployed populations, produce the race to find a new approach to a new problem. Yet never in history have advancements come from minority groups or identity politics and what we’re seeing is a sort of trial run, a project, in which if the majority couldn’t find the answers, perhaps a minority can. The idea is to turn everything on its head, a 360 degree turn – your gender is a personal belief, Christianity is replaced by new-age mysticism, culture is abolished … In one form or another, it’s all been tried previously with disastrous results and this attempt will be no different.



    Fancy dress, the ‘Brown shirts’ return and politicians become Gods










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    Quote Originally Posted by Refugee View Post
    Good heavens, that was like going down sociology memory lane a quarter of a century ago. All the familiar names cropped back up again – happy days. What he’s trying to say is that postmodernism is simply a continuation of ideological theory in an attempt to explain how society is constructed and the best way forward. Nowadays, psychology and individualism (Foucault’s free will) comes into it, whereas previously it centred on a top down authority approach and it’s
    that which it’s returning to, a subjective belief system, but based on an already prepared script.


    The various isms of the 20th century were simply a reaction to the excesses of capitalism and industrialisation, in the same way that welfare today is the answer to mass-unemployment. Yet whichever ism you take, from the left or right, collectivism is always the central theme and at both ends of the extreme you get the same kind of society.

    Racism (individual or institutional) now replaces the previous witch hunts. Politicians become Gods, political rallies are places of worship and the UN becomes the higher new-age authority. Human Rights Acts provide morals and welfare provides the previous bread for the workers, but at the end of it is the same old collectivised approach which previously held societies together. The SJWs are simply the modern equivalent of the old Crusaders, those who voted for Trump are the unbelievers and the schools and campuses are the equivalent of theological colleges for the new change. What you see on campuses and in the street protests throughout the west is a return to a kind of feudalism, in which the state has replaced the landowners, who now live in gated communities instead of old castles and the serfs get a choice of ‘landowner’ to vote for - and all
    believe.



    The conundrum for the west today is which type of road will socialism take, International or National and what we’re seeing are the results of Internationalism and it isn’t working. Post-industrialisation, with mass transient and unemployed populations, produce the race to find a new approach to a new problem. Yet never in history have advancements come from minority groups or identity politics and what we’re seeing is a sort of trial run, a project, in which if the majority couldn’t find the answers, perhaps a minority can. The idea is to turn everything on its head, a 360 degree turn – your gender is a personal belief, Christianity is replaced by new-age mysticism, culture is abolished … In one form or another, it’s all been tried previously with disastrous results and this attempt will be no different.



    Fancy dress, the ‘Brown shirts’ return and politicians become Gods


    I think you skipped modernism.

    And postmodernism as a reaction to the failure of socialism.

    But yes it was a review of philosophical movements. I thought it a good summary, each -ism providing context for the next.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I think you skipped modernism.
    And postmodernism as a reaction to the failure of socialism.
    But yes it was a review of philosophical movements. I thought it a good summary, each -ism providing context for the next.
    It was a good summary, I’m not disagreeing with it, just trying to explain it. Socialism (socialist) is not just a product of failure, it’s an attempt to equalise to prevent a repetition of the isms contained in 20th century. Modernism is, as the original quote suggests, simply a term used, rather like the ‘post-industrial’ period, or increasingly, ‘post-modernism’. In a 100 years time, another term will be used for what comes next if this all fails and it will. The reason it will fail is that what post-modernity tries to create is a utopia.








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    Postmodernism is just a continuation of reason, not an assault on it, and a demonstration of the inferiority of reason. Given that the world constantly changes, any so-called "objective" understanding of the world isn't really that.

    Likewise, the 'prime truth' of so-called "rational" philosophies is actually just a faith-based assumption of the primacy of reason, one which continues to be held in spite of the evidence indicating that the rational or "thinking" aspect of the mind is merely a less-evolved part of human consciousness. When one (ironically) uses reason itself to dismantle the faith-based assumption that reason is fundamental, then one is rationally lead into postmodernism and nihilism.

    Postmodernism and SJW-oriented movements are just ugly reason being taken to its myriad of ugly conclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    Postmodernism is just a continuation of reason, not an assault on it, and a demonstration of the inferiority of reason. Given that the world constantly changes, any so-called "objective" understanding of the world isn't really that.

    Likewise, the 'prime truth' of so-called "rational" philosophies is actually just a faith-based assumption of the primacy of reason, one which continues to be held in spite of the evidence indicating that the rational or "thinking" aspect of the mind is merely a less-evolved part of human consciousness. When one (ironically) uses reason itself to dismantle the faith-based assumption that reason is fundamental, then one is rationally lead into postmodernism and nihilism.

    Postmodernism and SJW-oriented movements are just ugly reason being taken to its myriad of ugly conclusions.
    Postmodernism rejects reason. Modernism embraces it.

    Postmodern rejection of Enlightenment begins with the rejection of objectivity, and once you toss that out so go reason and truth.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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