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Thread: Trickle Down, Up, and Out

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    Trickle Down, Up, and Out



    A decent cartoon to illustrate the difference between trickle down and trickle up.

    Republicans tend to favor trickle down. Give producers of wealth tax breaks and subsidies and they will invest in business and jobs and the wealth will redistribute down. All boats rise with the tide but the wealth that trickles to the bottom is very little.

    Democrats tend to favor trickle up. Give the poor redistributive wealth because they need it. Problem is they need it to purchase necessities from the wealthy and the wealth is redistributed from the middle class.

    Obama seemed to understand the problem with trickle up and for a short time talked about trickle out. Give tax cuts and subsidies to the middle-class who0 are, after all, the true producers of wealth. But he was a lame duck and no one bought his argument.

    All this trickling is just Keynesian economics and bound to fail anyhow. The government has no clue what it's doing.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Problem isn't the government. It is e-commerce. The American economy has been Amazoned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Problem isn't the government. It is e-commerce. The American economy has been Amazoned.
    The problem with trickle economic theories is e-commerce?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The problem with trickle economic theories is e-commerce?
    The problem is with reality not theory

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    Newpublius's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post


    A decent cartoon to illustrate the difference between trickle down and trickle up.

    Republicans tend to favor trickle down. Give producers of wealth tax breaks and subsidies and they will invest in business and jobs and the wealth will redistribute down. All boats rise with the tide but the wealth that trickles to the bottom is very little.

    Democrats tend to favor trickle up. Give the poor redistributive wealth because they need it. Problem is they need it to purchase necessities from the wealthy and the wealth is redistributed from the middle class.

    Obama seemed to understand the problem with trickle up and for a short time talked about trickle out. Give tax cuts and subsidies to the middle-class who0 are, after all, the true producers of wealth. But he was a lame duck and no one bought his argument.

    All this trickling is just Keynesian economics and bound to fail anyhow. The government has no clue what it's doing.
    Well supply side is really about ANYBODY who supplies. Its not trickle down or trickle up its about not sucking it to the government and letting it trickle to things people actually want to spend money on. The result is a fundamentally better economy.

    What is often forgotten is that the economy isn't an organism, its about people doing things other people acrually need them to do. When they are taxed, they do things government commands them to do. This is why government is a minimization issue.

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    I'm a fan of Keynesian economics. I think if monitored and modified when the economy and needs shift then it can be very effective.
    I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.
    Marilyn Monroe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newpublius View Post
    Well supply side is really about ANYBODY who supplies. Its not trickle down or trickle up its about not sucking it to the government and letting it trickle to things people actually want to spend money on. The result is a fundamentally better economy.

    What is often forgotten is that the economy isn't an organism, its about people doing things other people acrually need them to do. When they are taxed, they do things government commands them to do. This is why government is a minimization issue.

    The first point is what Republicans argue since Laffer.

    The second point is one I agree with, as I understand it, why is the government taking the wealth to begin with, why not just leave it in the hands of those who generate wealth?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    I'm a fan of Keynesian economics. I think if monitored and modified when the economy and needs shift then it can be very effective.
    The problem is with knowing when it needs it and how to modify it. The government is one step, at least, removed from business and really has no way of knowing what's happening.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The problem is with knowing when it needs it and how to modify it. The government is one step, at least, removed from business and really has no way of knowing what's happening.
    I don't know that it's as difficult to monitor as it once was. Now we have information at our fingertips whereas before we had to wait a year or more to see the effects.
    I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    I don't know that it's as difficult to monitor as it once was. Now we have information at our fingertips whereas before we had to wait a year or more to see the effects.
    Value is subjective. Therefore to know the market you need to know each person's valuations, as they change in the face of a dynamic economic environment. Even collecting that much information constantly is practically and theoretically impossible. Instead government expert guess and apply theories based on models. Say the economy takes a downturn. It makes sense then to slow investment to avoid malinvestment, you know, investing in some that might well fail. What's the government do? It lowers interest rates as incentive for people to borrow and invest. And sure anough most of it is malinvested. And a downturn becomes a Great Recession or worse, Depression. And as the market self-corrects and comes back, what does the government do but raise interest rates and in effect slow investment and recovery. It's out of tough with what real businessmen do and decide each day.

    If the government was so good at managing the economy how come it's $20T in debt with virtually nothing to show for it?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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