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Thread: The cult of "fandom" and its pagan similarities

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    The cult of "fandom" and its pagan similarities

    Today there are many similarities between modern "fandom" cults, centering around movies, video games, TV, comic books, etc, and their similarities with pagan religious, such as the gods worshiped by ancient Greece.

    It seems that people who lack purpose in life attempt to instead live 'vicariously' through their favorite TV, movie, video game characters, celebrities, etc, and develop rabid 'cult followings' around them, to the point that they're no longer just a pasttime, but a way of life.

    In a way this bears resemblance to the nature of ancient pagan religions, in which there were many 'gods' but none necessarily requiring exclusivity, and the 'gods' were merely akin to 'powerful mortals' with the same vices of men (as distinct from religions such as Buddhism, which acknowledge one universal standard of all morality and truth, and did not acknowledge mythical pantheons).

    I find modern obsessive fandom an example of human's lesser nature repeating itself, with the pagan deities once worshiped by masses merely surrogated with quasi-"worship" of fictional characters on TV or other media.

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    Often it is because there is a community of fans, not because of the centers of those communities. Some of these are online communities, but a lot of them are real world associations through conventions, clubs, meet-ups, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    Today there are many similarities between modern "fandom" cults, centering around movies, video games, TV, comic books, etc, and their similarities with pagan religious, such as the gods worshiped by ancient Greece.

    It seems that people who lack purpose in life attempt to instead live 'vicariously' through their favorite TV, movie, video game characters, celebrities, etc, and develop rabid 'cult followings' around them, to the point that they're no longer just a pasttime, but a way of life.

    In a way this bears resemblance to the nature of ancient pagan religions, in which there were many 'gods' but none necessarily requiring exclusivity, and the 'gods' were merely akin to 'powerful mortals' with the same vices of men (as distinct from religions such as Buddhism, which acknowledge one universal standard of all morality and truth, and did not acknowledge mythical pantheons).

    I find modern obsessive fandom an example of human's lesser nature repeating itself, with the pagan deities once worshiped by masses merely surrogated with quasi-"worship" of fictional characters on TV or other media.
    You do amuse me. I have a purpose in life and yet here I am with this group. Worship? Hardly.I belong to a few other groups despite having a purpose in life.

    The similarities part was doing well until you go to repeating itself. That last paragraph made the rest amusing.

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    My argument is that fandom is more or less akin to worship of pagan deities, just in a modern incarnation. Mythical gods like Zeus have just been replaced with mythical characters (like Hulk), but socially, it fills the same void as pagan sects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    Today there are many similarities between modern "fandom" cults, centering around movies, video games, TV, comic books, etc, and their similarities with pagan religious, such as the gods worshiped by ancient Greece.

    It seems that people who lack purpose in life attempt to instead live 'vicariously' through their favorite TV, movie, video game characters, celebrities, etc, and develop rabid 'cult followings' around them, to the point that they're no longer just a pasttime, but a way of life.

    In a way this bears resemblance to the nature of ancient pagan religions, in which there were many 'gods' but none necessarily requiring exclusivity, and the 'gods' were merely akin to 'powerful mortals' with the same vices of men (as distinct from religions such as Buddhism, which acknowledge one universal standard of all morality and truth, and did not acknowledge mythical pantheons).

    I find modern obsessive fandom an example of human's lesser nature repeating itself, with the pagan deities once worshiped by masses merely surrogated with quasi-"worship" of fictional characters on TV or other media.
    First, people have always been fascinated by stories about powerful humans - men, for the most part - and their adventures. Gilgamesh, Heracles, Achilles, Beowulf, and so on. The impetus behind much of what you term the "fandom cults" phenomenon is certainly nothing new; it is, in fact, one of the oldest and most enduring examples of our cultural heritage. If Homer could have made movies, I'm sure he would have.

    Second, your characterization of folks who, in your opinion, invest too much time and emotional energy in following their favorite movie superhero or t.v. series or comic book as "people who lack purpose in life" presupposes and suggests that their time would be better spent on some activity that you find interesting and worthwhile. If someone has both the free time and the discretionary income to devote to a fictional character, a real life entertainer, or what-have-you, while at the same time supporting themselves and perhaps a family with a real world job, who are you - who is anyone - to say that they ought to be focusing on something else instead?

    Third, I'm trying to remember the last time I read about an avid fan of Star Wars, the Marvel Universe or Dr. Who participating in a mass killing or terrorist attack on civilians. I can't seem to recall any instance of a member of the Captain America or Doc Savage or Lone Ranger "cult" starting a war, persecuting a religious, ethnic or sexual minority, subjugating women or murdering children.
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    It must be an awful life without fun.
    "Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
    - Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926), five-time Socialist Party candidate for U.S. President

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    Yeah, Wicca and animism are totally what everyone is instinctively reminded of when they think of dangerous, intolerant religious beliefs, not militant forms of Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, etc. That in the first place.

    In the second place, while I acknowledge that fans can get kind of crazy and intolerant of dissenting views about their favorite media (see my semi-obsessive defenses of Wonder Woman over the summer ), fictional heroes also inspire many people to affect their world positively. That's why you saw opponents of military rule in Thailand showing the three-finger salute from the Hunger Games as a sign of solidarity, why you saw women show up to the Women's March this year in Wonder Woman costumes, etc. Like most everything else in life, fandom can be good or bad. It all depends on how you use it.

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    First, people have always been fascinated by stories about powerful humans - men, for the most part - and their adventures. Gilgamesh, Heracles, Achilles, Beowulf, and so on. The impetus behind much of what you term the "fandom cults" phenomenon is certainly nothing new; it is, in fact, one of the oldest and most enduring examples of our cultural heritage. If Homer could have made movies, I'm sure he would have.
    True, there's a book called the Hero's Journey which explains this phenomenon, that was essentially my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Second, your characterization of folks who, in your opinion, invest too much time and emotional energy in following their favorite movie superhero or t.v. series or comic book as "people who lack purpose in life" presupposes and suggests that their time would be better spent on some activity that you find interesting and worthwhile. If someone has both the free time and the discretionary income to devote to a fictional character, a real life entertainer, or what-have-you, while at the same time supporting themselves and perhaps a family with a real world job, who are you - who is anyone - to say that they ought to be focusing on something else instead?
    No one's to "say it", it either is or isn't.

    If this argument is based on the false presumption that "all uses of time" are created equal, then that is problematic - but ultimately trying to "force" people to spend their time the specific way anyone else thinks they should is futile.

    Marx said that organized religion can be the opiate of masses (I'd extend that to all forms of "ideology" including political as well), I'm merely arguing a similar phenomenon can exist centered around mass media, which in some ways fills a void which organizations such as the Catholic Church filled during the middle ages.
    Third, I'm trying to remember the last time I read about an avid fan of Star Wars, the Marvel Universe or Dr. Who participating in a mass killing or terrorist attack on civilians. I can't seem to recall any instance of a member of the Captain America or Doc Savage or Lone Ranger "cult" starting a war, persecuting a religious, ethnic or sexual minority, subjugating women or murdering children.
    The word "fan" comes from the word "fanatic", as far as a fan of a specific franchise, I'm not sure, but sports-related violence isn't anything new, and is arguably indistinguishable psychologically speaking from religious or political violence.
    Last edited by Devil'sAdvocate; 10-30-2017 at 10:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Yeah, Wicca and animism are totally what everyone is instinctively reminded of when they think of dangerous, intolerant religious beliefs, not militant forms of Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, etc. That in the first place.
    Wicca's founders were anti-homosexuality. Modern "wicca" is really more akin to LARPing than anything else.

    I'm going to assume that modern incarnations of it have become infested with "social justice identity politics", seeing as cults with a "counter-culture, social outcast" chic tend to attract disturbed or confused individuals who view themselves as perpetual victims and receive validation from it.

    Gerald was homophobic. He had a deep hatred and detestation of homosexuality, which he regarded as a disgusting perversion and a flagrant transgression of natural law.... 'There are no homosexual witches, and it is not possible to be a homosexual and a witch' Gerald almost shouted. No one argued with him.[6]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca_and_LGBT_people

    Last edited by Devil'sAdvocate; 10-30-2017 at 10:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    No one's to "say it", it either is or isn't.
    No - whether something is a "waste of time" for a particular individual is not a matter of objective fact; it's just your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    Marx said that organized religion can be the opiate of masses (I'd extend that to all forms of "ideology" including political as well), I'm merely arguing a similar phenomenon can exist centered around mass media, which in some ways fills a void which organizations such as the Catholic Church filled during the middle ages.
    On that point we are in agreement...except that there are many cultures in the world right this minute where religion suffuses daily life and virtually all activity, in much the same way that popular culture fills what some might consider an inordinate amount of many people's lives in more secular Western societies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    The word "fan" comes from the word "fanatic", as far as a fan of a specific franchise, I'm not sure, but sports-related violence isn't anything new, and is arguably indistinguishable psychologically speaking from religious or political violence.
    Sports-related violence is a problem, certainly - and it is greatly exacerbated by alcohol consumption, which unfortunately has become a traditional, almost compulsory accompaniment to watching sports in the popular mind, thanks to Anheuser-Busch, Guinness, et al. And while you might have a point that "psychologically speaking" there is a similarity there with religious or political violence, in practical terms there is no comparing even something as brutal and deadly as a soccer riot with the sort of crusades, pogroms, ethnic cleansing, etc., that religious or political fanaticism engenders. (In your last paragraph, you have also, I note, moved your focus from pop culture generally to sports specifically. The fact remains that, as before stated, the great majority of popular culture fans - even sports fans - are not violent, nor do the stories, characters and real life personalities to which they devote time inspire them to be violent.)
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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