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Thread: The essence of the facts

  1. #11
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    The Quran says that Allah is merciful and that He gives severe punishment. So is He forgiving or is He vengeful?
    The Quran mentions many times that God is the Most Merciful. In fact, all except one of the 114 chapters of the Quran begin with Bismillaahi Aahmaani Arraheem, which means, "I begin with the name of God, the Entirely Merciful and the Especially Merciful". These two descriptions of God are sometimes translated as "The Compassionate, the Merciful"; however in Arabic grammar, both names are an intensive form of the word "merciful". Rahmaan means merciful to all creation, and justice is part of this mercy. Raheem means merciful especially to the believers and forgiveness is part of this mercy.

    A complimentary and comprehensive meaning is intended by the use of both of them together. In addition, Allah speaks of His forgiveness throughout the Quran. In fact, God's mercy and forgiveness have been mentioned together more than 70 times in the Quran. Allah repeatedly reminds us saying “Tell My servants that I am indeed the Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful; And that My Penalty will be indeed the most grievous Penalty.” (Quran 15:49-50)


    Allah is just, and His justice necessitates that He reward those who obey and serve Him and punish those who disobey and rebel against Him. If Allah did not punish the sinful, wicked and evil people who deserve to be punished, it would not be justice. When punishment for wrongdoing is certain, it serves to deter potential offenders. In contrast, if Allah forgave everyone and punished no one, there would be no reason for legislation, ethics or even morality. Life on earth would be chaotic and nothing short of anarchy. True justice, with its true rewards and just penalties can only be found with Allah, and that is what He has promised in the Quran “We shall set up scales of justice for the Day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least, and if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account.” (Quran 21:47)


    Allah forgives all those who repent and correct themselves at any stage in their lives, and He has invited all people to His abundant forgiveness and mercy:
    Say: ‘O My slaves who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful. And return (in repentance) to your Lord and submit to Him before the punishment comes upon you; then you will not be helped. And follow the best of what was revealed to you from your Lord before the punishment comes upon you suddenly, while you do not perceive. (Quran 39:53-5)


    Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. "Turn ye to our Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you: after that ye shall not be helped. "And follow the best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the Penalty comes on you - of a sudden while ye perceive not!- "Lest the soul should (then) say: 'Ah! Woe is me!- In that I neglected (my duty) towards Allah, and was but among those who mocked!'- "Or (lest) it should say: 'If only Allah had guided me, I should certainly have been among the righteous!'

    كيف محمد اخر الانبياء وعيسى سوف ينزل !!!!!! zakir naik


    طفل وسؤال خطير لماذا الله تحدى الشيطان ثم يعطية فرصة ليضلنا ذاكر نايك ابداع


    معاق يسئل لماذا الله ترك الانجيل يتحرف وحفظ القران من التحريف Zakir Naik ذاكر نايك

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    All religions have one thing in common is that they all think that theirs is the true one and all others are not. None of them consider the fact that prior to agriculture that there were many GODS giving to explain natural events in their environment. As Humans learned agriculture which supported a larger group of people, the one GOD belief was replaced by all of the GODS previously assigned to nature.

    This GOD was not a loving, forgiving one for if anyone sinned they were killed. Women that had a child out of wedlock were murdered. The idea that Jesus was born from a Virgin Mother when there probably was a lot of women living in that time frame also claimed to have a virgin birth for fear of death is not mentioned purposely to protect the integrity of Jesus's birth.



  3. #13
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    The Message of All religions Prophets of the Old Testament such as Abraham, Noah and Jonah never preached that God is part of a Trinity, and did not believe in Jesus as their saviour. Their message was simple: there is one God and He alone deserves your worship. It doesn’t make sense that God sent Prophets for thousands of years with the same essential message, and then all of a sudden he says he is in a Trinity and that you must believe in Jesus to be saved.


    The truth is that Jesus preached the same message that the Prophets in the Old Testament preached. There is a passage in the Bible which really emphasizes his core message. A man came to Jesus and asked “Which is the first commandment of all?”Jesus answered, “The first of all the commandments is Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.’’[Mark 12:28-29]. So the greatest commandment, the most important belief according to Jesus is that God is one. If Jesus was God he would have said ‘I am God, worship me’, but he didn’t. He merely repeated a verse from the Old Testament confirming that God is One.

    Some people claim that Jesus came to die for the sins of the world. But consider the following statement of Jesus: This is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent. I have glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.[John 17:3-4]. Jesus said this before he was caught and taken to be crucified. It is clear from this verse that Jesus did not come to die for the sins of the world, as he finished the work God gave him before he was taken to be crucified.

    Also Jesus said “salvation is of the Jews” [John 4:22]. So according to this we don’t need to believe in the Trinity or that Jesus died for our sins to attain salvation since the Jews don’t have these beliefs.
    5. The Early Christians

    Historically there were many sects in early Christianity who had a range of beliefs regarding Jesus[1]. Some believed Jesus was God, others believed Jesus was not God but partly divine, and yet others believed he was a human being and nothing more. Trinitarian Christianity which is the belief that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in three persons became the dominant sect of Christianity, once it was formalized as the state religion of the Roman Empire in the 4th Century. Christians who denied Jesus being God were persecuted by the Roman Authorities[2]. From this point onwards the Trinitarian belief became widespread amongst Christians. There were various movements in early Christianity which denied the Trinity, among the more well known of them is Adoptionism and Arianism.

    Dr Jerald Dirks who is an expert on early Christianity had this to say on the subject: Early Christianity was quite conflicted about the issue of the nature of Jesus. The various Adoptionist positions within early Christianity were numerous and at times dominate. One can even speculate that Arian and Nestorian Christianity might well be an extremely sizable source within Christianity today, if it were not for the fact that these two branches of Christianity, which were located primarily in the middle east and in North Africa were so similar to the Islamic teaching regarding the nature of Jesus that they quite naturally were absorbed into Islam at the beginning of the seventh century.”[3]

    Since there were so many sects in early Christianity, each with different beliefs about Jesus and with their own versions of the Bible, which one can we say was following the true teachings of Jesus?

    It doesn’t make sense that God sends countless Prophets like Noah, Abraham and Moses to tell people to believe in one God, and then suddenly sends a radically different message of the Trinity which contradicts his previous Prophets teachings. It is clear that the sect of Christianity who believed Jesus to be a human Prophet and nothing more, were following the true teachings of Jesus. This is because their concept of God is the same as that which was taught by the Prophets in the Old Testament.
    Jesus in Islam

    The Islamic belief about Jesus demystifies for us who the real Jesus was. Jesus in Islam was an extraordinary individual, chosen by God as a Prophet and sent to the Jewish people. He never preached that he himself was God or the actual son of God. He was miraculously born without a father, and he performed many amazing miracles such as healing the blind and the lepers and raising the dead – all by God’s permission. Muslims believe that Jesus will return before the day of Judgement to bring justice and peace to the world. This Islamic belief about Jesus is similar to the belief of some of the early Christians. In the Quran, God addresses the Christians about Jesus in the following way:

    O People of the Book, do not commit excesses in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers and do not speak of a ‘Trinity’– stop [this], that is better for you– God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust. [4:171]

    Islam is not just another religion. It is the same message preached by Moses, Jesus and Abraham. Islam literally means ‘submission to God’ and it teaches us to have a direct relationship with God. It reminds us that since God created us, no one should be worshipped except God alone. It also teaches that God is nothing like a human being or like anything that we can imagine. The concept of God is summarized in the Quran as:

    “Say, He is God, the One. God, the Absolute. He does not give birth, nor was He born, and there is nothing like Him.” (Quran 112:1-4)[4]

    Becoming a Muslim is not turning your back to Jesus. Rather it’s going back to the original teachings of Jesus and obeying him.





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    Muhammad ibn (son of) Abdullah ibn (son of) Abdul Mutalib, was born on 12 Rabi 'Awwal in the year 570 C.E. (Christian Era) in Makkah, (today: Saudi Arabia) and he died in 633 C.E. in Yathrib (today: Madinah, Saudi Arabia)





    In Arabic the word prophet (nabi) is derived from the word naba which means news. Thus we deduce that a prophet spreads the news of God and His message, they are in a sense God’s ambassadors on earth. Their mission is to convey the message to worship One God. This includes, calling the people to God, explaining the message, bringing glad tidings or warnings and directing the affairs of the nation. All the prophets were anxious to convey God’s message sincerely and completely and this included the last prophet, Muhammad. During his final sermon Prophet Muhammad asked the congregation three times whether he had delivered the message, and called on God to witness their answer, which was a resounding “yes!”.

    As well as the essence of their call to One God, another accepted sign of the truth of the prophets is how they live their lives. The accounts of Prophet Muhammad’s life that we have inherited from our righteous predecessors illustrate that Muhammad’s Prophethood was guided by God from the very beginning. Long before, Prophethood Muhammad was being prepared to guide humankind to the straight path and his life experiences stood him in good stead for such a weighty mission. Then at the age of 40 when Prophethood was bestowed upon him, God continued to support and affirm his mission. Any account of Muhammad’s life is filled with examples of his exemplary character; he was merciful, compassionate, truthful, brave, and generous, while striving solely for the rewards of the Hereafter. The way Prophet Muhammad dealt with his companions, acquaintances, enemies, animals and even inanimate objects left no doubt that he was ever mindful of God.

    Muhammad’s birth was accompanied by many so called miraculous events and the talk of the extraordinary events no doubt functioned as signs of Prophethood,

    Special but not unique circumstances surrounded childhood of Prophet Muhammad and these undoubtedly had a bearing on his character. By the time he was eight years old he had suffered through the death of both his parents and his beloved grandfather Abdul Muttalib. He was left in the care of his uncle and great supporter Abu Talib. Thus even as a young boy he had already suffered great emotional and physical upheaval. Both the many chroniclers of Muhammad’s life and the Quran acknowledge his disrupted life.

    Did He not find you (O Muhammad) an orphan and gave you a refuge? (Quran 93:6)

    Muhammad’s uncle Abu Talib was poor and struggled to keep his family fed, thus during his adolescence Muhammad worked as a shepherd. From this occupation he learned to embrace solitude and developed characteristics such as patience, cautiousness, care, leadership and an ability to sense danger. Shepherding was an occupation that all the prophets of God we know of had in common. ‘…The companions asked, “Were you a shepherd?” He replied, “There was no prophet who was not a shepherd.”’[1]

    In his teens Muhammad sometimes travelled with Abu Talib, accompanying caravans to trade centres. On at least one occasion, he is said to have travelled as far north as Syria. Older merchants recognized his character and nicknamed him Al-Amin, the one you can trust. Even in his youth he was known as truthful and trustworthy. One story that is accepted by most Islamic scholars and historians is the account of one of Prophet Muhammad’s trips to Syria.

    The story goes that the monk Bahira foretold the coming Prophethood and counselled Abu Talib to “guard his nephew carefully”. According to biographer Ibn Ishaq, as the caravan in which Prophet Muhammad was travelling approached the edge of town, Bahira could see a cloud that appeared to be shading and following a young man. When the caravan halted under the shadow of some trees, Bahira “looked at the cloud when it over-shadowed the tree, and its branches were bending and drooping over the apostle of God until he was in the shadow beneath it.” After Bahira witnessed this he observed Muhammad closely and asked him many questions concerning a number of Christian prophecies he had read and heard about.

    The young Muhammad was distinguished among his people for his modesty, virtuous behaviour and graceful manners, thus it was no surprise for his companions to see him, even as a youth many years before Prophethood, shun superstitious practices and keep away from drinking alcohol, eating meat slaughtered on stone altars or attending idolatrous festivals. By the time he reached adulthood Muhammad was thought of as the most reliable and trustworthy member of the Meccan community. Even those who concerned themselves with petty tribal squabbles acknowledged Muhammad’s honesty and integrity.

    Muhammad’s virtues and good moral character was established from a young age, and God continued to support and guide him. When he was 40 years old Muhammad was given the means to change the world, the means to benefit the whole of humanity


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    The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. We find that Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40 ). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12 ). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48 ) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14 ). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171 ): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.”

    The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. They are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah’s chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends (Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews). Mohammed said, “The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.” (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God’s promises from Allah, if Allah is their God? Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eninn View Post
    The truth is that Jesus preached the same message that the Prophets in the Old Testament preached. There is a passage in the Bible which really emphasizes his core message. A man came to Jesus and asked “Which is the first commandment of all?”Jesus answered, “The first of all the commandments is Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.’’[Mark 12:28-29]. So the greatest commandment, the most important belief according to Jesus is that God is one. If Jesus was God he would have said ‘I am God, worship me’, but he didn’t. He merely repeated a verse from the Old Testament confirming that God is One.
    Jesus had teachings that were not revealed yet at the time of Noah and Jonah. One of his hallmark teachings was from John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the father except through me."

    In another of Jesus teachings he said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." - John 8:58

    Did Jesus Claim to be God? Yes!


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    Quote Originally Posted by eninn View Post
    Also Jesus said “salvation is of the Jews” [John 4:22].


    That doesn't exclude Jesus, as he was a Jew also. So there's no problem there.

    Quote Originally Posted by eninn View Post
    So according to this we don’t need to believe in the Trinity or that Jesus died for our sins to attain salvation since the Jews don’t have these beliefs.
    That's an illogical conclusion, as your initial premise above did not make a case for you.

    The Gospels clearly teach that Jesus died for the atonement and salvation of those who would believe in him.

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by resister View Post
    But Islam respects Jesus as a Prophet, correct? What is the difference between Him and Muhhamhed (sp?) in that case? Eninn?
    Jesus is divine / God, Muhammed was supposedly a prophet.

    Scholar Kevin J. Conner lists 27 initial scriptural evidences demonstrating the deity of Christ:

    1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
    2. He was with God (John 1:1).
    3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
    4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
    5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
    6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
    7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
    8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
    9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
    10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
    11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
    12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
    13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
    14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
    15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
    16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
    17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
    18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
    19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
    20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
    21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
    22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
    23. He judges. (John 5:22)
    24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
    25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
    26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
    27. One with the Father (John 10:30).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    Jesus is divine / God, Muhammed was supposedly a prophet.

    Scholar Kevin J. Conner lists 27 initial scriptural evidences demonstrating the deity of Christ:

    1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
    2. He was with God (John 1:1).
    3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
    4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
    5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
    6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
    7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
    8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
    9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
    10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
    11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
    12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
    13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
    14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
    15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
    16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
    17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
    18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
    19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
    20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
    21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
    22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
    23. He judges. (John 5:22)
    24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
    25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
    26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
    27. One with the Father (John 10:30).
    I confess Jesus as my Savior and declare Him the Son of GOD.
    There is no God but Resister and Refugee is his messenger’.

    Book of Democrat Things, Chapter 1:1






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    Allah
    Right
    The Merciful
    Has no father or mother or Wife
    No partner with him in power
    One
    Owner of the heavens and the earth
    Glorify him all creatures
    God
    That does not drink
    That does not sleep
    That does not eat
    God says in the Quran




    (255) Allah – there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kurs extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.


    1) Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One
    (2) Allah , the Eternal Refuge
    (3) He neither begets nor is born


    60. Is not He (better than your gods) Who created the heavens and the earth, and sends down for you water (rain) from the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the growth of their trees. Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)!

    61. Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but most of them know not.

    62. Is not He (better than your gods) Who responds to the distressed one, when he calls Him, and Who removes the evil, and makes you inheritors of the earth, generations after generations. Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Little is that you remember!

    63. Is not He (better than your gods) Who guides you in the darkness of the land and the sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His Mercy (rain)? Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? High Exalted be Allah above all that they associate as partners (to Him)!

    64. Is not He (better than your so-called gods) Who originates creation, and shall thereafter repeat it, and Who provides for you from heaven and earth? Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful








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