Wolfenstein 2: Anti-White?

[Mister D]

I will take no lectures on that from someone who has used a Hitler avatar before.



In other words, it's either some widely discredited, McCarthyite source like The Black Book of Communism or you don't have one.

Sure you will and I have never had a Hitler avatar.

Look it up, Polly. I'm not your history tutor. If you had looked it up before you became a Maoist you may have had a fortuitous "holy $#@!" moment saving you a lot of time and effort.

BTW, the Black Book of Communism was published around 20 years ago. You have strange compulsion to recycle long dead language.

[Mister D]

@ https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NAZIS.CHAP1.HTM

McCarthyite lies!

[IMPress Polly]

Mister D wrote:
Sure you will and I have never had a Hitler avatar.

Hmmmm....I seem to distinctly remember one! MAYBE I'm confusing you with someone else, but I doubt it.

McCarthyite lies!

Well let's break it down: Even assuming that Chris's data is all accurate, check out the key "Odds of Dying" column that Chris's own chart provides. Notice where the highest odds -- i.e. the highest rate of "death by government" -- lies, by a lot: "Nazi Europe". What's to miss about that? The fact that World War II didn't last as long as the Soviet Union or the Cold War?

Now, btw, check out where, among those cited in Chris's chart, by far the LOWEST rate of "death by government" could be found: "Communist China" (liberally defined as running through 1987, where most Maoists would say 1976-9). Ooooohhh! Maybe there were worse dictators than Mao after all! Maybe China's average life expectancy doubling in 25 years under Mao WASN'T actually the worst thing that ever happened in human history!

[Chris]

Hmmmm....I seem to distinctly remember one! MAYBE I'm confusing you with someone else, but I doubt it.



Well let's break it down: Even assuming that Chris's data is all accurate, check out the key "Odds of Dying" column that Chris's own chart provides. Notice where the highest odds -- i.e. the highest rate of "death by government" -- lies, by a lot: "Nazi Europe". What's to miss about that? The fact that World War II didn't last as long as the Soviet Union or the Cold War?

Now, btw, check out where, among those cited in Chris's chart, by far the LOWEST rate of "death by government" could be found: "Communist China" (liberally defined as running through 1987, where most Maoists would say 1976-9). Ooooohhh! Maybe there were worse dictators than Mao after all! Maybe China's average life expectancy doubling in 25 years under Mao WASN'T actually the worst thing that ever happened in human history!

It's not my chart, Polly.

It's the results of decades of study by Rudolph Joseph Rummel, a liberal and a professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii.

Here's what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Rummel has to say:

Rudolph Joseph Rummel (October 21, 1932 – March 2, 2014[1]) was professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii. He spent his career studying data on collective violence and war with a view toward helping their resolution or elimination. Rummel coined the term democide for murder by government (compare genocide), such as the Stalinist purges and Mao's Cultural Revolution.

He put the total number of people killed by governments during the 20th century at 212,000,000 of which he says 148,000,000 were killed by communist regimes.[2] His figures for Communist regimes are higher than those given by other scholars, which range from 60,000,000 to 100,000,000.[3] He concluded that democracy is the form of government least likely to kill its citizens and that democracies do not wage war against each other.[4] This is known as the democratic peace theory.

He generally estimates much much higher number for Communist murder, but the chart he drew up used the standard number scholars use.

the highest rate of "death by government" -- lies, by a lot: "Nazi Europe". What's to miss about that? The fact that World War II didn't last as long as the Soviet Union or the Cold War?

Rates aren't determined by temporal factors like that. So it's not the "lie" your denialism wishes it were.

And for all your ooohs and aaahs Communist China still murder more than the Nazis.

Accept history, Polly. Reject Communism.

[donttread]

Did you take yourself seriously as a Maoist? Sorry, your condemnation of Nazism (or what passes for Nazism these days) rings hollow.



Anyway, the tiny minority of weirdos playing Nazi are irrelevant. In light of the irrelevancy of Nazism the real question here is why are we always reminded of Nazi evil? It's certainly not unique. How and why did Nazis become the archetypal villains?

My guess would be that the telvision age closely followed WW2.

[Mister D]

Hmmmm....I seem to distinctly remember one! MAYBE I'm confusing you with someone else, but I doubt it.



Well let's break it down: Even assuming that Chris's data is all accurate, check out the key "Odds of Dying" column that Chris's own chart provides. Notice where the highest odds -- i.e. the highest rate of "death by government" -- lies, by a lot: "Nazi Europe". What's to miss about that? The fact that World War II didn't last as long as the Soviet Union or the Cold War?

Now, btw, check out where, among those cited in Chris's chart, by far the LOWEST rate of "death by government" could be found: "Communist China" (liberally defined as running through 1987, where most Maoists would say 1976-9). Ooooohhh! Maybe there were worse dictators than Mao after all! Maybe China's average life expectancy doubling in 25 years under Mao WASN'T actually the worst thing that ever happened in human history!

You remember a lot of things that never happened.

Polly, Chris' chart isn't really of interest. That's no slight to Chris. After all, it's common knowledge or at least it should be that the Chinese communists killed more people than the Nazis. It's also beyond dispute that communist regimes are responsible for a far greater number of deaths than fascist regimes. We can include the Nazis in that category for the sake of simplicity. So why exactly do the Nazis loom so large in our imagination? Why is that, Polly? Because Rummel concludes you had a greater likelihood of being a victim in nazi Europe? Seriously? lol

BTW, your last comments are shameful. Hey, maybe Mao's atrocities effected some good! Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, huh? Ugh...you're disgusting.

[IMPress Polly]

Alright, I think this Hitler vs. Mao debate has gone far enough. No one was worse than Hitler was my only point. I am an anarchist, not a Maoist. Let us return to the topic of Wolfenstein 2 now.

[resister]

Attachment 21018

This picture reminds me of someone.

[Mister D]

Alright, I think this Hitler vs. Mao debate has gone far enough. No one was worse than Hitler was my only point. I am an anarchist, not a Maoist. Let us return to the topic of Wolfenstein 2 now.

There was no debate here, Polly. My position is irrefutable but I agree that no one was worse than Hitler. Once you kill millions of people what's the point of making distinctions? This guy killed 3 million so he's not as bad as the guy who killed 5 million? It's ridiculous.

Anyway, my question is why Nazis loom so large in our imagination? Why is that? Nazi atrocities certainly weren't unique. You love to analyze society, Polly. Surely this is food for thought. Why do we see so many films about the Jewish Holocaust? Why does Holocaust literature turn up so often in American schools? I don't want to take the focus off of video game villains but it's a larger topic.

[Chris]

Alright, I think this Hitler vs. Mao debate has gone far enough. No one was worse than Hitler was my only point. I am an anarchist, not a Maoist. Let us return to the topic of Wolfenstein 2 now.

Hitler was terrible. Only Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others were worse.

If you're no longer a communist/Maoist, why defend them?