User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 41 to 48 of 48

Thread: The church and doctrine

  1. #41
    Original Ranter
    Points: 297,709, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 42.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Mister D's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    416529
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    117,870
    Points
    297,709
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    25,301
    Thanked 53,474x in 36,449 Posts
    Mentioned
    1102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by barb012 View Post
    How ironic that this op comes up when the government is putting a bill through that allows churches to fund politician's in donations. To expand their doctrine includes teaching their audience in influencing political agendas by using their religious beliefs as a powerful tool over their followers.
    Could you give us some examples of what you're talking about?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Mister D For This Useful Post:

    pjohns (11-19-2017)

  3. #42
    Points: 79,997, Level: 68
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 53
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    nathanbforrest45's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    77960
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    In a house on a hill
    Posts
    28,260
    Points
    79,997
    Level
    68
    Thanks Given
    7,102
    Thanked 16,261x in 10,568 Posts
    Mentioned
    129 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    I read about a church, somewhere in the rural South, called the 'Do Me Good Baptist Church". When a schism about something divided the membership, one group left and founded what they called the "Do Me Better Baptist Church". May be an apocryphal story, but it sounds about right.



    Of course acceptance of the Pope's primacy, the belief that "holy tradition" is of equal authority with Scripture, and that the Holy Spirit preserves the Church hierarchy from doctrinal error - those are all matters of faith. Sure, it feels good, on one level, just to "let go" intellectually and place your faith in what someone else tells you they know; the desire to own and have access to a sort of owner's manual to life and the universe is one of Man's oldest and strongest urges - it's what makes Religion such a powerful, recurring force in history.
    The South is over run with churches that came from feuds of church members. This is why you have the Holy Church of the Seven Deadly Sins and a half block away, The Holy Church of the Seven Deadly Sins and the Call To Baptism, and then another half block The Holy Church of the Seven Deadly Sins and the Call to Baptism of the Believers"

    A slight exaggeration but there are a number of off springs in any community in the deep south. To be fair there are also a large number of small churches because of transportation issues when the area was first settled. In a two mile radius of my house I can count at least 10 small congregations. However if you look at the effort that was required to get from your home to to your church 75 80 years ago when these churches first formed you can see most people had to walk over very rough terrain. Churches tended to become family churches close at hand.

    I still like the Traditional Catholic Mass because before Vatican II you could go to Mass in any church in any country and other than the Sermon every service was exactly the same.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to nathanbforrest45 For This Useful Post:

    Ann Fann (12-10-2017)

  5. #43
    Points: 79,997, Level: 68
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 53
    Overall activity: 0.3%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    nathanbforrest45's Avatar Banned
    Karma
    77960
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    In a house on a hill
    Posts
    28,260
    Points
    79,997
    Level
    68
    Thanks Given
    7,102
    Thanked 16,261x in 10,568 Posts
    Mentioned
    129 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by barb012 View Post
    How ironic that this op comes up when the government is putting a bill through that allows churches to fund politician's in donations. To expand their doctrine includes teaching their audience in influencing political agendas by using their religious beliefs as a powerful tool over their followers.
    Never heard that. In fact most Churches are not even allowed to support a specific candidate from the pulpit.

    Can you tell us what bill that might be?

  6. #44
    Points: 74,636, Level: 66
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 814
    Overall activity: 41.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    314972
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    25,625
    Points
    74,636
    Level
    66
    Thanks Given
    5,717
    Thanked 21,089x in 12,284 Posts
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    The South is over run with churches that came from feuds of church members. This is why you have the Holy Church of the Seven Deadly Sins and a half block away, The Holy Church of the Seven Deadly Sins and the Call To Baptism, and then another half block The Holy Church of the Seven Deadly Sins and the Call to Baptism of the Believers"

    A slight exaggeration but there are a number of off springs in any community in the deep south. To be fair there are also a large number of small churches because of transportation issues when the area was first settled. In a two mile radius of my house I can count at least 10 small congregations. However if you look at the effort that was required to get from your home to to your church 75 80 years ago when these churches first formed you can see most people had to walk over very rough terrain. Churches tended to become family churches close at hand.
    The greatest number of such divisions and breakaways have no doubt come from some (what to most folks would be) relatively minor doctrinal point that one group or another decided was so important that they could not bring themselves to fellowship with those who held a different view of it. The human ego also plays its part in such dvisions, I believe; the urge to be seen as a learned and authoritative teacher of the Faith is strong in those places, and what better way to establish yourself in that position than to start your own church body?

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    I still like the Traditional Catholic Mass because before Vatican II you could go to Mass in any church in any country and other than the Sermon every service was exactly the same.
    Before I had ever set foot in a Catholic church, I learned about the Faith by reading an old Catholic high school Religion text from the '40s that I'd picked up somewhere. So when I actually began going to Mass and taking instruction - this was in the late '70s - I was surprised, and occasionally dismayed, at the differences between the practices I'd read about and the reality I was experiencing. There were times, however, when an older, tradition-minded priest would seem to "forget" to call for certain parts of the new liturgy. When I was living in San Jose, the nearest church had a congregation made up almost entirely of Portuguese speakers, so of course that's the language Mass was conducted in. Not speaking or understanding a word of either Latin or Portuguese, it was all the same to me, and I was free to imagine that I was worshipping in an earlier time in Church history.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

  7. #45
    Points: 5,809, Level: 18
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 541
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Ann Fann's Avatar Member
    Karma
    95
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    164
    Points
    5,809
    Level
    18
    Thanks Given
    69
    Thanked 85x in 62 Posts
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    I find it rather troubling that some churches wish to manufacture doctrine.

    It is not that doctrine is unimportant--far from it--but it is simply not within the church's purview to set this forth.

    Rather, it is the obligation of each individual believer to come to a proper understanding of biblical doctrine, according to the teachings of Scripture.

    The church (any church) is simply not the proper source for "True Doctrine" (to be blindly accepted by all parishioners).
    ^^^^This is why you have 30,000 Protestant denominations. And you couldn't be more wrong - it is not only the Church's purview to establish doctrine, but the Church's purpose. (And in case you have forgotten, the Church consists of it's members!)

  8. #46
    Points: 5,809, Level: 18
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 541
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Ann Fann's Avatar Member
    Karma
    95
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    164
    Points
    5,809
    Level
    18
    Thanks Given
    69
    Thanked 85x in 62 Posts
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    But why should we suppose that the leaders of the church have some greater insight into just what that will is than, say, the typical parishioner does? (Note: I emphatically do not believe in a dichotomy between the so-called "clergy" and the so-called "laity." Neither should be considered spiritually--or theologically--superior to the other, in my opinion.)
    What dichotomy? In liturgical churches, anyway, the clergy and laity have different functions, the laity to spread the Gospel, the clergy to spread the Gospel and administer the sacraments, which is what clergy are trained to do. Don't believe me? Try running a church service yourself and see how easy it is.

  9. #47
    Points: 74,636, Level: 66
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 814
    Overall activity: 41.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    Standing Wolf's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    314972
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    25,625
    Points
    74,636
    Level
    66
    Thanks Given
    5,717
    Thanked 21,089x in 12,284 Posts
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Humans have a need for detailed, authoritative knowledge and instruction about whatever it is they happen to be doing. Religious worship is no exception. The longer a church exists, the more detailed the instruction tends to become, in order to answer all of the questions that arise.

    In that Catholic high school Religion text from the '40s I mentioned earlier, I remember one of the questions involved the requirement to, as I recall, fast before receiving the Eucharist for a certain time period - from midnight the night before, I think it was - and the question was, does it break the fast if you chew and swallow your fingernails. That sounds very silly to most of us, I'm sure, but to someone who is vitally, seriously interested in following the Church's (and therefore God's) instructions to the letter, it might be a real concern. (The answer, by the way, was (paraphrasing) that it's okay as long as the bits are chewed up very finely and mixed with saliva.)
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

  10. #48
    Points: 49,511, Level: 54
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 1,139
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialTagger First ClassRecommendation Second Class50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Cthulhu's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    72948
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The spaces between cognitive thought and passive nightmares
    Posts
    13,841
    Points
    49,511
    Level
    54
    Thanks Given
    10,369
    Thanked 8,079x in 5,392 Posts
    Mentioned
    577 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Humans have a need for detailed, authoritative knowledge and instruction about whatever it is they happen to be doing. Religious worship is no exception. The longer a church exists, the more detailed the instruction tends to become, in order to answer all of the questions that arise.

    In that Catholic high school Religion text from the '40s I mentioned earlier, I remember one of the questions involved the requirement to, as I recall, fast before receiving the Eucharist for a certain time period - from midnight the night before, I think it was - and the question was, does it break the fast if you chew and swallow your fingernails. That sounds very silly to most of us, I'm sure, but to someone who is vitally, seriously interested in following the Church's (and therefore God's) instructions to the letter, it might be a real concern. (The answer, by the way, was (paraphrasing) that it's okay as long as the bits are chewed up very finely and mixed with saliva.)
    Not always the case.

    Time passing does not always yield to more minute instructions. The LDS church is a prime example of that.

    There are several topics - such as fasting, paying tithes and such that are left to the individual via personal revelation to fulfill on there own.

    The church knows that it need not issue edicts for every aspect of life and it acts accordingly. Sure there are some hard and fast rules on specific topics, but there are many topics where the individual needs to pray and figure it out themselves via revelation.

    Sent from my evil cell phone.
    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

    Ephesians 6:12

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts