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Thread: How to End Postmodernism

  1. #21
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    Kacper's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I think you need to learn more about postmodernism aka SJW aka PC aka....

    It is very much collectivist. By this philosophy the individual does not exist but by his identity, sometimes inherent, sodmetidmes by construct, with a group. BLM and White Nationalists are both examples.

    I don't disagree with your general point we identify with many groups and join with them, but that is different than identity politics where you either belong or you're an oppressor. You're also trying to be logical when postmoderning rejects reason for feelings.
    And I think that you need to go back and see that postmodernism isn't a rigid philosophical structure. That it uses collective action does not change what I said about most political action. It is civil rights marches. It is workers throwing their shoes in the machinery. All of it is collective and none of it is peculiar to postmodernism.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    And I think that you need to go back and see that postmodernism isn't a rigid philosophical structure. That it uses collective action does not change what I said about most political action. It is civil rights marches. It is workers throwing their shoes in the machinery. All of it is collective and none of it is peculiar to postmodernism.

    Group identity as a basis for collectivism is not the same as group or collective action. Civil rights marches were collective action without the group identity. They marched for equal rights for all. BLM marches for rights for blacks just as white seperatists march for rights for white. If we go back further in the roots of postmodernism we will find Marxists who advocated for the rights of workers, all workers, black, white, brown, green. But Marxism/socialism became a lost cause with the fall of Russia and has splintered into postmodern identity groups opposed to their own oppression.

    No one said postmodernism is a rigid philosophy, splintered into identity groups as it is today it can hardly be called that.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  3. #23
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    Devil'sAdvocate's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The Enlightenment's claim was not "divine" but nature--not divine law but natural law.
    Natural law, divine law, a rose by a different name - the name is the only difference.
    Its individualism is a product of Christianity.
    Postmodernism is the end of a long chain of counter-Enlightenment arguments that rejected objectivity, reason, truth...
    It rejects "truth" no more than the Protestant reformers rejected "truth" by rejecting Catholicism.

    The argument is based on the false supposition, that much like the Pope, the mythical "Enlightenment" and its prophets are 'avatars' of truth and that their words are equivalent to those of any divine being of yore.

    Rejecting them is merely pointing out that them and the church they have attempted to create to supplant the Catholic Church which processed it, are false prophets.

    and individualism for collectivism--the collectivism of identity groups.
    Reason easily affirms collectivism, and the exercise of reason undermines the very authority thereof - one therefore can not hold up individualism as a quasi-'divine' and indisputable truth without simultaneously rejecting the "authority" of reason itself.

    Human bodies are collectives of individual cells - the mind exercises supreme 'authority' over the body, forcing its cells to work for the 'greater good' against their individual will.
    Last edited by Devil'sAdvocate; 11-25-2017 at 12:18 AM.

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    In summary, the Enlightenment was just another example of humanity repeating itself, it was nothing truly "new", merely just history repeating itself, with the words and rhetoric updated for its time and place.

    When any status quo becomes corrupt or repressive, prophets and reformers emerge attempting to return the status quo to a purer foundation, some with better results than others.

    Jesus did so in the days of the Pharisees, overtime, however, the Christian faith he founded morphed into the repressive Catholic Church of the Middle Ages, and became the same repressive status quo Jesus had sought to supplant.

    Then the "prophets" of the Enlightenment came, attempting to supplant a corrupt status quo with a purer one founded on "truth" or "reason"...

    And today, the Enlightenment has become the new establishment - and only true undisputed "religion" of the West.

    Westerners are free to argue for and against the existence of God, but no Westerner would argue against free speech, democracy, or technological progress - without being branded a heretic by atheists and Christians alike.

    So no, if anyone wants to find "truth", they won't find it in the dying "Enlightenment" itself, nor will they find it through "reason" - reason just as easily leads people to design gas chambers and gulags just as much as it leads them to "truth".
    Last edited by Devil'sAdvocate; 11-25-2017 at 01:34 AM.

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    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    The story of the Enlightenment is a modern mythology - mythology and history never tell the whole story, and omit or exaggerate - human nature is the only constant, and most humans at any given time will support their status quo by default.

    What starts as something "original", like Christianity or the Enlightenment, denigrates over time until it becomes just another status quo, barely distinguishable from that which proceed it, until it's bad enough to inspire a revolution, and so the cycle repeats...

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