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Thread: How to End Postmodernism

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    How to End Postmodernism

    "Jordan Peterson talks about how the individual can resist creeping leftism and cultural marxism."

    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    He seems to be describing tribalism, which existent in a myriad of forms, such as white nationalism.

    I don't see anything 'postmodern' about identity politics.

    But to end postmodernism, I guess you'd have to turn back the clock and make modernism less archaic.

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    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    The mythology of the Enlightenment is outdated, and Western-centric; post-modernism to some extent, seems to be a reaction to that, for example:

    *The Enlightenment is based on a mythical history of "Western Civilization"

    (usually starting with the ancient Greeks)
    - the reality though, is that none of the ideas of the Enlightenment were truly 'original' - they were just revivals of ideas which had always existed in some form or another (the idea of meritocratic government, for example, was proposed in China by Confucius long before the Enlightenment)

    *"Western science"

    Being solely responsible for discoveries is also a myth; ideas of a "big bang" or "evolution", for example are ancient ideas, and seem to be referenced in world religions. The Greek myth of the universe originating from Chaos has similarities with the Big Bang, and ideas of all life evolving from a single source were proposed by ancient Greek philosophers, and are also referenced in creation myths, which coincided with the human genome project. (Ironically, racist Enlightenment gurus like Voltaire were behind even the most ancient fables). While industrial technology may have provided more precise tools of measurement, the ideas had always been around.

    *The Enlightenment was a withdrawal from "religion" in favor of reason and separation of church and state.
    In truth, there is no difference between "church and state" to begin with - both are just forms of government, which was the primary function of the Catholic Church to begin with - and to prohibit a murder from murdering is imposing one's "religion" or ethical code on them anyway.

    The Enlightenment was really just the creation of new secular or civil "religions" to replace ones deemed out of date, with invented mythologies which venerated "science", or, "progress", or "Western Civilization". Sure, they may have "reasoned" their own moral codes, but so did those who invented the Catholic Church, or any other form of organized government or religion.

    The problem is, today the Enlightenment isn't the only game in town, much as organised religions like the Catholic Church now have to keep up with Monday Night Football - in a global society, the Enlightenment is going to to have to adapt to stay competitive...
    ...and might find that people of Latino, African, Asian, Pacific descent aren't too keen adopting language, culture, and systems of scientific measurement invented by racists and slavers (and the British Empire and the "West" doesn't have the means to force them anymore).
    For that matter, maybe it might find that women aren't too keen on adopting the ugly and aesthetically challenging systems of education, workplace, and measurement invented by old, creepy white men - given their much more vocal presence in society today compared to centuries ago.

    ---
    My theory is essentially that, the "Enlightenment" has become the new Catholic Church of the West, and postmodernism is the new "Enlightenment", or reaction against an institution of oppression.
    Last edited by Devil'sAdvocate; 11-21-2017 at 09:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    The mythology of the Enlightenment is outdated, and Western-centric; post-modernism to some extent, seems to be a reaction to that, for example:

    *The Enlightenment is based on a mythical history of "Western Civilization"

    (usually starting with the ancient Greeks)
    - the reality though, is that none of the ideas of the Enlightenment were truly 'original' - they were just revivals of ideas which had always existed in some form or another (the idea of meritocratic government, for example, was proposed in China by Confucius long before the Enlightenment)

    *"Western science"

    Being solely responsible for discoveries is also a myth; ideas of a "big bang" or "evolution", for example are ancient ideas, and seem to be referenced in world religions. The Greek myth of the universe originating from Chaos has similarities with the Big Bang, and ideas of all life evolving from a single source were proposed by ancient Greek philosophers, and are also referenced in creation myths, which coincided with the human genome project. (Ironically, racist Enlightenment gurus like Voltaire were behind even the most ancient fables). While industrial technology may have provided more precise tools of measurement, the ideas had always been around.

    *The Enlightenment was a withdrawal from "religion" in favor of reason and separation of church and state.
    In truth, there is no difference between "church and state" to begin with - both are just forms of government, which was the primary function of the Catholic Church to begin with - and to prohibit a murder from murdering is imposing one's "religion" or ethical code on them anyway.

    The Enlightenment was really just the creation of new secular or civil "religions" to replace ones deemed out of date, with invented mythologies which venerated "science", or, "progress", or "Western Civilization". Sure, they may have "reasoned" their own moral codes, but so did those who invented the Catholic Church, or any other form of organized government or religion.

    The problem is, today the Enlightenment isn't the only game in town, much as organised religions like the Catholic Church now have to keep up with Monday Night Football - in a global society, the Enlightenment is going to to have to adapt to stay competitive...
    ...and might find that people of Latino, African, Asian, Pacific descent aren't too keen adopting language, culture, and systems of scientific measurement invented by racists and slavers (and the British Empire and the "West" doesn't have the means to force them anymore).
    For that matter, maybe it might find that women aren't too keen on adopting the ugly and aesthetically challenging systems of education, workplace, and measurement invented by old, creepy white men - given their much more vocal presence in society today compared to centuries ago.

    ---
    My theory is essentially that, the "Enlightenment" has become the new Catholic Church of the West, and postmodernism is the new "Enlightenment", or reaction against an institution of oppression.
    None of that makes much historical sense.

    The thread is not about the Enlightenment anyhow, but Postmodernism.

    I think I know who you are though.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    None of that makes much historical sense.

    The thread is not about the Enlightenment anyhow, but Postmodernism.

    I think I know who you are though.
    The problem is that Marxism was right about the Enlightenment; Enlightenment values were created, just like those of any worldly institution such as the Catholic Church - the Enlightenment can't claim its values, knowledge, history, have any quasi-"divine" claim to authority in and of themselves, or else the Enlightenment is merely the Catholic Church 2.0.

    Some aspects of postmodernism just seem to be a reaction to the Enlightenment and it's self-referential claims to absolute legitimacy

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    There is no need to end post-modernism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    The problem is that Marxism was right about the Enlightenment; Enlightenment values were created, just like those of any worldly institution such as the Catholic Church - the Enlightenment can't claim its values, knowledge, history, have any quasi-"divine" claim to authority in and of themselves, or else the Enlightenment is merely the Catholic Church 2.0.

    Some aspects of postmodernism just seem to be a reaction to the Enlightenment and it's self-referential claims to absolute legitimacy
    Kant and Hume were right about the Enlightenment. Germans like Hegel dismantled it further. Marx followed Hegel's thinking, unoriginally in that respect.

    Your history is way off, as off as you are still off topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    There is no need to end post-modernism.
    I'll end itself in self-contradiction and in splitting off into ever more identity groups.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I'll end itself in self-contradiction and in splitting off into ever more identity groups.
    Exactly, it'll result in the end of Enlightenment imperialism, perhaps eventually English will even become a minority language, and "Western science and education" will be replaced by methods originating in the East.

    If the Catholic Church can go from having the authority to put people on the rack, to being the butt of pedophilia jokes, so can the Enlightenment and Western Civilization become a dated relic due to being unable to adapt.

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