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Thread: America was not founded....

  1. #31
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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    Me, not personally, I just see through myths that people en masse take for granted. The closest to a state religion or ideology of the West even if not outright stated as such is "Enlightenment liberalism", so no, "church and state" never became separate to begin with, one church was just exchanged for another, and people were fed the myth that they magically became more "Enlightened" and traded "faith" for "reason", when all they did was trade their "faith" in one status quo for another.

    (One which, ironically, has easily surpassed the atrocities of the former, as everything from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to the gas chambers of Auschwitz, and other inventions of the Industrial revolution have proven).

    Your posts a like the aftermath of a twister run through a barnyard. I wish you luck finding someone can make sense if it.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Your posts a like the aftermath of a twister run through a barnyard. I wish you luck finding someone can make sense if it.
    Pretty simple:

    1. Enlightenment liberalism is the oppressive establishment of the West, the mythical history of the Enlightenment doesn't match with how play out in practice - in practice, it's just another status quo that uses myths of its Enlightenment origins to claim legitimacy, much as the Catholic Church attempted to use Christ or St. Paul to claim legitimacy

    2. The average person doesn't accept enlightenment values based on "reason", they accept them based on blind faith in the status quo, much as Americans have blind faith in national currency - which is why there is no difference between "church" and state to begin with other than on the books, both are just institutions of governance by a different name.

  4. #33
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    Hoosier8's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil'sAdvocate View Post
    Pretty simple:

    1. Enlightenment liberalism is the oppressive establishment of the West, the mythical history of the Enlightenment doesn't match with how play out in practice - in practice, it's just another status quo that uses myths of its Enlightenment origins to claim legitimacy, much as the Catholic Church attempted to use Christ or St. Paul to claim legitimacy

    2. The average person doesn't accept enlightenment values based on "reason", they accept them based on blind faith in the status quo, much as Americans have blind faith in national currency - which is why there is no difference between "church" and state to begin with other than on the books, both are just institutions of governance by a different name.
    The enlightenment is based on reason and why it is still valued.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier8 View Post
    The enlightenment is based on reason and why it is still valued.
    It's based on reason as much as theories like Marxism and fascism are, ask any theorist and they'll claim their theory is the most 'rational', because they have faith in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nic34 View Post
    ^^ now theres some of that good ol christian concern for women
    Concern for "women" is just an appropriation of cultural notions from eras past, such as chivalry.

    Because if not for some ideology, Christianity or otherwise, then what is a "woman" but another form of sexual capital, at least as far as evolutionary biology is concerned?

    Male sexual aggression in chimpanzees:

    https://www.livescience.com/48743-ag...duce-more.html

    Biologically, it's 'natural' for apes (including humans) to take sexual advantage of females if it enables them to survive and reproduce, so if you believe there's some "intrinsic" reason that women have rights to begin with, then where does that come from? Faith... in something?
    Last edited by Devil'sAdvocate; 11-28-2017 at 10:04 PM.

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    Some REAL American history was not taught to some tPF members. Hit the library kids.
    " I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes! And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a 'new woman'. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!" - Spencer Tracy in 'Adam's Rib' (1949)

    Art thou every retard among us related to thine uncle or mistress by way of moral or illegitimate rendezvous? Thus, we are one side of the other's coin by luck or pluck. - Jimmyz

  8. #37
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    It's not that complicated, the Catholic Church claimed to be "following Christ" even when it tortured heretics, today elites claim to represent the 'values of the Enlightenment' even when they're merely using the establishment to further their own selfish interests or maintain a corrupt status quo that needs reform.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier8 View Post
    The enlightenment is based on reason and why it is still valued.
    Objectivity, reason, truth, universalism, and individualism. Each tossed out by counter-Enlightenment thinkers prone to collectivism, and when that failed, PC, SJW, identity politics, snoiwflakes.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Objectivity, reason, truth, universalism, and individualism.
    Nay, rather it the Enlightenment is just a lie and a false gospel pretending to be the only way to truth, like the Catholic Church before it did.

    Even when individualism, ironically, is shown to be an unfounded myth or a construct by scientific methodology, it is still clung to as gospel based on faith or emotion rather than reason, showing that ultimately that's what gives any ideology its influence, and when the facts conflict with it - they get thrown out.

    As explained, "individual" is a construct - one's human body is only "1 individual" or "1 collective of cells" depending on the perspective of the viewer, so there is nothing "objective" about an ideology that venerates the myth of the individual.

    (This seems to indicate, that neither 'individualism', or 'collectivism' are correct, since they're both based on perspectives).
    Each tossed out by counter-Enlightenment thinkers prone to collectivism, and when that failed, PC, SJW, identity politics, snoiwflakes.
    Well, at this point, its never coming back as it was, nor is Rome. It will have to either adapt to the world at large or become as irrelevant as the Catholic Church. The "West" is dying in world influence, and today the world is too large and interconnected in the digital age for fascists to attempt to force their false Enlightenment on diverse peoples, or women in particular.

    ...as they have for ages, and used to rationalize everything from slavery, to nuclear holocaust, all in the name of "science" and "progress"...

    ...maybe corrupted somewhat from the original teachings of Enlightenment philosophers (but then again, the Catholic Church didn't exactly do justice to Jesus either).

    Either way, the "Enlightenment" today is just another defective establishment which is on its way out, postmodernism is a symptom of the disease it created; if the Enlightenment is Rome, identitarians and 'postmodernists' are the barbarians spawned by its own immorality and materialism. So that's karma.
    Last edited by Devil'sAdvocate; 11-29-2017 at 12:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    What's the topc, if I might ask?
    Trolling.

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