Gay Wedding Cake Controversy Heads to Supreme Court

[Ethereal]

I think it is interesting how so many people get their panties in a wad because some people couldn't buy a cake from a particular vendor, but those same people don't care a rat's ass about the fact that the vendor is being punished for not engaging in forced labor against his will. Framing this as a religious issue is just clouding the issue. the real issue should be whether the state has the right to force, under penalty of law, a citizen to perform labor against his will. If they can force you to bake a cake, what else can they force you to do?

Of course, the state has no such right. But it does assume for itself that power. Indeed, the existence of the state is predicated upon the enslavement of its subjects.

[Nicole]

This should be left up to the States. The SCOTUS should not be imposing its will on the entire country through judicial FIAT. That is the real issue here.

How is using the Constitution and decided law to stop discrimination of a couple engaging in a legal activity, judicial FIAT?

[Ethereal]

The Constitution is for all of us. Think about the Jim Crow laws.

It's better to risk the emergence of tyranny on a localized basis than to risk its emergence on a nationalized one.

[Chris]

By all accounts - including that of the baker - the refusal to make the couple's cake came before any discussion had taken place about what kind of cake they wanted. There was no request for a "custom cake" - not even rainbow-colored frosting.

As far as I recall, it was stated the cake was for the wedding of the same-sex couple in the store. At that point the owner said no. Much more has been made of it since to make the case.

Still, it's his business, his labor, etc, and he should be free to decide how he uses his business, labor, time, etc.

[Ethereal]

How is using the Constitution and decided law to stop discrimination of a couple engaging in a legal activity, judicial FIAT?

The SCOTUS has no business arbitrating this dispute one way or the other. It should be left up to the State of Colorado.

[Standing Wolf]

How is using the Constitution and decided law to stop discrimination of a couple engaging in a legal activity, judicial FIAT?

It isn't.

[Ethereal]

As I've said before, a central government with the power to enforce the rights (real or imagined) of every individual in the country is a government with the power to deprive them of their rights. The founders understood this, which is why they feared centralized government and reserved most powers for state and local governments.

[Ethereal]

It isn't.

I've been looking through the federalist papers and cannot seem to find the part where they give the SCOTUS jurisdiction over discrimination in business practices for the entire country. I also cannot find the part where they say getting served at a business is a "right", constitutionally protected or otherwise. Maybe I missed it?

[Chris]

How is using the Constitution and decided law to stop discrimination of a couple engaging in a legal activity, judicial FIAT?

The fiat was quite some time ago when SCOTUS decided to incorporate the 14th amendment into state and local matters.

Imagine you came to me and wanted me to make you a cake or build you a house or whatever and because I didn't like you, for whatever reason, serious or silly, I said no. Nothing would codme of it because we would all recognize I can decide with whom I want to associate and contract for any reason at all. You'd find a nother baker, builder, whatever, and I'd find another customer.

Now if this is all about equality before the law then what difference legally should it make that the customer is gay?

[Ethereal]

"Liberals" are not really "liberals" at all, since they routinely ignore and undermine the basic tenets of liberalism, e.g., limited government, decentralization, home rule, etc. They want a giant, centralized beast of a government that behaves like a nanny or a mommy. They want to be fed and protected and swaddled. Oh, unless it involves something they personally value, like abortions. Then it's all "hands off my body".