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Thread: The Coming Conflict Between China and Japan

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    The Coming Conflict Between China and Japan

    The Coming Conflict Between China and Japan

    Here is an interesting article about the geopolitics of east Asia. China and Japan may be on a collision course.

    It is easy to forget that as recently as the 19th century, China and Japan were provincial backwaters. So self-absorbed and technologically primitive were East Asia’s great powers that German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel said, “The extensive tract of eastern Asia is severed from the process of general historical development.” His description seems laughable today. China and Japan are now the second- and third-largest economies in the world. Japan’s failed quest for regional domination during World War II and its subsequent economic reconstruction profoundly affected the world. China’s unification under communism and its pursuit of regional power in the past decade have been no less significant.

    And yet, for all the strength and wealth Beijing and Tokyo accumulated, since 1800 neither has been powerful enough to claim dominance of the region. Since European and American steamships discovered their technological superiority relative to the local ships in the first half of the 19th century, Chinese and Japanese development has proceeded at the mercy of outside powers. Japan tried to break out, and came close to breaking out during World War II, but was ultimately thwarted by the United States. China, already anointed by many as the world’s great superpower, remains a country divided. The lavish wealth found in its coastal regions is noticeably, if not entirely, absent from the interior.

    This state of affairs is beginning to change – and the U.S.-North Korea stand-off over Pyongyang’s pursuit of deliverable nuclear weapons shows just how much. The United States does not want North Korea – a poor, totalitarian state of roughly 25 million malnourished and isolated people – to acquire nuclear weapons capable of striking the U.S. mainland. The U.S. has threatened North Korea with all manner of retribution if Pyongyang continues its pursuit of these weapons, and yet North Korea remains undaunted. It is doing this not because Kim Jong Un is crazy. It is doing this because it figures it will be left standing, come what may.
    It may not be such a bad wager. From Kim’s point of view, there are only two ways to get North Korea to halt its development of nuclear missiles: The U.S. either destroys the regime or convinces it that continued tests would call into question its very survival. (For that to work, the regime would have to believe it could be destroyed.)


    The U.S. can rail all it wants in the U.N.; it will fall on deaf ears. The U.S. can try to assassinate Kim Jong Un; someone else will take his place. The U.S. can forbid China from fueling North Korea; the North Koreans don’t use that much fuel anyway, and they have already demonstrated they will sacrifice much to defend their country.
    Read the rest at the link.

    As I have said in the past, even superpowers have constraints on action. And perhaps it is time for regional powers to step up and control their belligerent neighbors.
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    Yes, China is certainly looking for a chance to badly humiliate the Japanese, maybe even make Okinawa independent as it was historically.

    Having said that, Japan is giving them plenty of fuel for that nationalistic fire as well. If Germany 's Neo Nazi is well in the mainstream and it's government have often flirted with that "We're the victim of WW2" game and the PM is the grandson of a big time Nazi cabinet member (which Abe is btw.), you can bet it's relationship with rest of Europe would be pretty terrible as well.

    The bigger problem with the US superpower is that post WW2 due to the cold war basically world trade had the US at the center. but the end of cold war and emergence of Asia means that natural geography and population distribution is starting to be the main factor again and in that case there's no overlooking that South Asia + SEA + East Asia is like 65% of the world's population. that gravity is almost irresistible. so the economic fundamental of the US world domination is pretty much screwed especially when the single most important state in here is quite antagonistic with the US and the second most important (India ) has hardly been the most US friendly state historically either.

    It makes no sense for the US to spend so much money maintaining world maritime commerce if they're not the center of that trade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The Coming Conflict Between China and Japan

    Here is an interesting article about the geopolitics of east Asia. China and Japan may be on a collision course.



    Read the rest at the link.

    As I have said in the past, even superpowers have constraints on action. And perhaps it is time for regional powers to step up and control their belligerent neighbors.
    Playing devil's advocate, it should be noted that we have no idea what would replace Kim. Nor do we have a working model.

    Maybe we should feed them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethere View Post
    Playing devil's advocate, it should be noted that we have no idea what would replace Kim. Nor do we have a working model.

    Maybe we should feed them.
    US interest in North Korea is not being hit by a nuclear weapon. It is not the people of NK nor is it who leads them.

    In a perfect world we would take out their nuclear program. Period. What happens to their government and people is not our concern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    Yes, China is certainly looking for a chance to badly humiliate the Japanese, maybe even make Okinawa independent as it was historically.

    Having said that, Japan is giving them plenty of fuel for that nationalistic fire as well. If Germany 's Neo Nazi is well in the mainstream and it's government have often flirted with that "We're the victim of WW2" game and the PM is the grandson of a big time Nazi cabinet member (which Abe is btw.), you can bet it's relationship with rest of Europe would be pretty terrible as well.

    The bigger problem with the US superpower is that post WW2 due to the cold war basically world trade had the US at the center. but the end of cold war and emergence of Asia means that natural geography and population distribution is starting to be the main factor again and in that case there's no overlooking that South Asia + SEA + East Asia is like 65% of the world's population. that gravity is almost irresistible. so the economic fundamental of the US world domination is pretty much screwed especially when the single most important state in here is quite antagonistic with the US and the second most important (India ) has hardly been the most US friendly state historically either.

    It makes no sense for the US to spend so much money maintaining world maritime commerce if they're not the center of that trade.
    Hence the criticism for the US pulling out of the TPP.
    One can be sure that he who says he knows knows nothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    US interest in North Korea is not being hit by a nuclear weapon. It is not the people of NK nor is it who leads them.

    In a perfect world we would take out their nuclear program. Period. What happens to their government and people is not our concern.
    Its an imperfect world. Taking out their nuclear program at this point would seem to be a fools errand with all the negative potential outcomes that would engender. The North Koreans are neither stupid or crazy. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the best course of action is negotiations without preconditions as put forth by Tillerson the other day.
    One can be sure that he who says he knows knows nothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripmeister View Post
    Its an imperfect world. Taking out their nuclear program at this point would seem to be a fools errand with all the negative potential outcomes that would engender. The North Koreans are neither stupid or crazy. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the best course of action is negotiations without preconditions as put forth by Tillerson the other day.
    To what end? NK will not give up their nuclear program or its ICBM program.
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