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Thread: The hard road of free markets

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I am by no means a fan of 'free" markets. I don't even know what that means to be honest. That said, that was one odd historical narrative about monarchies
    The proper question is why of a sudden is the thread being sidetracked into a discussion of monarchies? Is off topic an art form these days?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    The Borgias also got bad press in their own day which ought to be indicate something about the general climate.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The proper question is why of a sudden is the thread being sidetracked into a discussion of monarchies? Is off topic an art form these days?
    She didn't mean to take anything off topic. It's a narrative of "progress" she thinks is pertinent. It's a bizarre one but a narrative nonetheless.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    'tweren't nothin' compared to the mass murders of their own by the central planning governments you seem to like.
    So we are still looking for a better system. Monarchies are not reliable. They indulged in incest, and many of them were basically nuts. They were autocrats who you couldn't get rid of without either killing them or waiting until the died of old age. Sorry, but that is just unreliable. It's actually fortunate for them that the state evolved or they would have inbred themselves into total idiocy, insanity and massive birth defects.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    The Borgias were indeed cynical and treacherous but there are three problems: they weren't monarchs, they didn't kill that many people and you should probably take Borgia stories with a grain of salt.
    They were aristocrats, integrated into the church(two were Popes) and married into royal houses. It's not just about the ones sitting on the thrones, but the families surrounding them.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    They were aristocrats, integrated into the church(two were Popes) and married into royal houses. It's not just about the ones sitting on the thrones, but the families surrounding them.
    So the Borgias were cynical and ruthless. And?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The proper question is why of a sudden is the thread being sidetracked into a discussion of monarchies? Is off topic an art form these days?
    How can you discuss the present unless you discuss that which led to it? The current state evolved from other economic models, all of which were eventually cast off when they failed to benefit the people. The minarchism that you support, was cast off even before the advent of monarchies. The fly in your ointment is human behavior. People are not content with a purely agricultural and hunting society, so we gather together to support different skills and abilities. In doing so, our interpersonal dynamics change, requiring more structure, rules and laws to avoid bloodshed. The larger the population, the more complicated the structure and laws become because of the increased need for roads and services and the increased access of the wolf to the lambs. Contracting separately for every service or voting individually for infrastructure improvement is either administratively inefficient thus more expensive or otherwise involves the dynamics of a direct democracy, which will often end up in an impasse even in a small population. In a large population, it would be unworkable because it's either just too complicated for many people or you would have too many different agendas to choose from. Government distills needs into necessities and nice to haves but it's not without its drawbacks. Still, as bad as it is, what you wish for would be worse.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    So the Borgias were cynical and ruthless. And?
    They weren't unique in that respect. Wealth and power is very attractive, particularly to those who liked to live beyond their means and needed access to the piggy bank.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    They weren't unique in that respect. Wealth and power is very attractive, particularly to those who liked to live beyond their means and needed access to the piggy bank.
    Unique? No. Ordinary? Hardly. That's why you know who they are. Anyway, like I said, monarchs simply did not execute many people and wars were not engaged in for profit. Wars are extremely expensive and could lead to ruin. Wars for profit are far more characteristic of your own age than that of European monarchs.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Unique? No. Ordinary? Hardly. That's why you know who they are. Anyway, like I said, monarchs simply did not execute many people and wars were not engaged in for profit. Wars are extremely expensive and could lead to ruin. Wars for profit are far more characteristic of your own age than that of European monarchs.
    There were many imperialistic wars. Now whether they were for profit or power is debatable.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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