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Thread: The hard road of free markets

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    The hard road of free markets

    The fundamental reason so many markets are not free, and so dysfunctional, is that the voters of our democracy don't really want freedom. Freedom will come when we want it, when we insist on it, when the average voter sees a free market solution rather than endless controls as the answer to real world problems. The sad paradox of free markets is that free markets do not need people to understand them to work. But democracy does require voters to understand how things work.

    --John Cochrane, The hard road of free markets
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Free market is a farce. I'm convinced it's an old idea that can't work in current times.
    I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.
    Marilyn Monroe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    Free market is a farce. I'm convinced it's an old idea that can't work in current times.
    So what does work in your (flawed) opinion? Socialism? Communism? Both proven failures.
    IT'S JUST BORIS!





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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    So what does work in your (flawed) opinion? Socialism? Communism? Both proven failures.
    Free market is bull$#@! because it's rigged. It will always benefit those who have the most money. The answer is to change with the times rather than apply old theories and practices that are easily manipulated these days. My opinion is mine - flawed or not.
    I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.
    Marilyn Monroe

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    gamewell45 (12-19-2017)

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    Trish, like many, you, I think, confuse crony capitalism and free-market capitalism. Another word for crony capitalism is state capitalism because it represents a collusion of government and business often against other sets of businesses--like content carriers colluding with the government to regulate ISPs--but even more often collusion against the people--taxing the middle class to pay for welfare so the poor can purchase goods and services from big corporations. Another word for it is crapitalasim, it is crap, rigged, fixed, managed, bull$#@!.

    The free market, however, is free of government regulation and is just you and me agreeing to exchange what we value less for what we value more so we both gain--yiur and me and the rest of the people as consumers and business people competing and cooperating in pursuit of happiness.

    The former has been around since the dawn of the nation-state with the advent of agriculture. It's based on the mercantilist model of economics. The latter, the free market, emrged around the time of the Enlightenment and the American Revolution. One could argue this model of exchange is what existed prior to the mercantilist one, because the state did not then exist.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Trish (12-19-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Trish, like many, you, I think, confuse crony capitalism and free-market capitalism. Another word for crony capitalism is state capitalism because it represents a collusion of government and business often against other sets of businesses--like content carriers colluding with the government to regulate ISPs--but even more often collusion against the people--taxing the middle class to pay for welfare so the poor can purchase goods and services from big corporations. Another word for it is crapitalasim, it is crap, rigged, fixed, managed, bull$#@!.

    The free market, however, is free of government regulation and is just you and me agreeing to exchange what we value less for what we value more so we both gain--yiur and me and the rest of the people as consumers and business people competing and cooperating in pursuit of happiness.

    The former has been around since the dawn of the nation-state with the advent of agriculture. It's based on the mercantilist model of economics. The latter, the free market, emrged around the time of the Enlightenment and the American Revolution. One could argue this model of exchange is what existed prior to the mercantilist one, because the state did not then exist.
    Maybe..... I guess I'm just down on everything these days.
    I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.
    Marilyn Monroe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    Maybe..... I guess I'm just down on everything these days.
    I tend to feel that way around the holidays. I think maybe it's because it gets dark so early.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    Free market is bull$#@! because it's rigged. It will always benefit those who have the most money. The answer is to change with the times rather than apply old theories and practices that are easily manipulated these days. My opinion is mine - flawed or not.
    Free markets can't work within large populations because large populations involve social anonymity thus needing far greater government to create order and structure, which results in the interplay between large business interests and elected representatives. The free market disappeared because of large populations and the evolution of the state. In the same circumstances, the free market will always become unfree because we are dealing with large masses of human beings, greed and technological advancement that favors capitalism over a free market.

    So you are correct, it is rigged and it is anachronistic. It fails to consider human nature outside of small familiar communities who keep each other in check. Ironically the issue was addressed in the bible: "For the love of money is the root of all evil" 1 Timothy 6:10, KJV. When people don't know each other it is very simple to think singularly about financial success to the exclusion of everything else. It creates artificial scarcity and the ability to think of one's fellow man abstractedly.

    Short of a major cataclysm, we are not going to return to small populations and the free market is and will only be alive and well in the underground economy. We can either live with the downside of capitalism and work on fixing the inherent corruption or find a new economic model that values something other than money.
    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the worlds problems.
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Why the hell do people practically beg for ever expanding gov to control more of their daily activities? Is gov so trustworthy but not the citizenry?

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    If all the cronyism, government involvement and capitalism disappeared tomorrow and we started again from scratch, what we’d be left with is free markets. That’s the default of economic success. The reason people tend not to like it is because they’re all looking for this equality based economic system which doesn’t exist. I make something, I sell you it, or we barter. I try to make the most profit from my labour, you try to buy cheap, or barter up yours. We bargain, we haggle, we make a deal. Someone does it better than me they become richer, someone does it worse they become poorer, someone who doesn’t do anything waits for someone else to feed and clothe them and dreams up a failed economic system that makes them equal to the producers. When that doesn’t happen, they blame us and tell us the system is wrong.








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